Do bad lifters mean Engine replacement is needed?

[[email protected]]

I was recently told by my mechanic that I had bad lifters. He diagnosed this after listening to it run for a few moments, and not yet getting into it. I don't doubt him, as he does sounds pretty savvy and this Mechanic shop has great reviews. But he sounded pretty convinced that, if it's the lifters like he thinks, then it means that a new engine is almost certainly needed, and that a new engine (installed) will be about $12K. This is more than I can/want to afford. Now I am new to the Vanagon world and generally lacking knowledge when it comes to engines of any kind. with this lack of knowledge I am skeptical about some of the things I was told. My engine was rebuilt 75k miles ago, does it seem reasonable that with lifters going bad it could mean an eminent engine replacement? And of so, wouldn't a rebuild be considerably cheaper than a whole new engine? Or any other option?

Thank you guys/gals for your help.
Trentin E

[Paulbeard]

The rest of the more knowledgeable folks will want to know:
year of van
engine size/type
mileage overall
how long you have owned it


$12k sounds like a downpayment for something. You can install a rebuilt from GoWesty for less than that, with the help of a friend or two and the Sambanista cheering section. I suspect bad lifters have a more reasonable/affordable fix than that.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

[vegpedlr]

When Inhas the heads pulled and resealed there was a bit of trouble getting the valves in adjustment. A couple of the lifters were replaced with better used ones. Another possible solution that didn't need to be tried was replacing the push rod tubes with the collapsible ones. Digging that deep in the engine isn't exactly cheap, but a lot less than a new engine. This work had to be done around 75K on a rebuild from a previous owner.
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1985 Tintop 4 sp GW 2.3 “Connie”
2006 Mk V GTI 2.0 FSI “Penelope”

[[email protected]]

Thank you guys! Good information, I figured it wouldn't be a cheap fix, and from the research I've done, I figured it would be a good bit of work, and not cheap. The new engine just seems extreme.

And thanks for reminding me vegpedlr
I have an 85 Vanagon, 1.9 waterboxer, I have had the van a whopping 7 weeks, and it ran perfect for the first 4

[Zeitgeist 13]

What are the symptoms? WBX lifters are notorious for bleeding down and causing a real clatter which can be disconcerting for the uninitiated. You should get a second opinion from someone knowledgeable in all things WBX.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[0to60in6min]

I would suggest that you drain half a quart or a quart of oil and replace it with Marvel Mystery Oil at the same amount... drive it about 30 miles and report back.

hearing valves clatters and thinking a new engine is quite a severe diagnostic... if compression is good on all 4 cylinders a valve job with new lifters is way more affordable than a new engine.

[[email protected]]

As far as the symptoms I have, Zeitgeist 13, my vehicle was running I began to hear the "tink tink tink" and it got very low on power. In the process of trying to limp it off the road, the oil light began flashing and then the vehicle just died on me. I couldn't get it started for a few more minutes. It starts now, continues to "tink" and is low in power. My mechanic mentioned adding Ann additive to to to possibly fix the problem. Would that be the Marvel Mystery noil?

I apologise for my ignorance, and am really appreciating everyone's responses. Very insightful.

Trentin E

[Tom Powell]

Aloha
tp

[Wildthings]

You may have a stuck oil relief valve that is causing low oil pressure which in turn is causing the lifters to not pump up. I would add a full quart of MMO to your crankcase and see what effect it has, the engine should tolerate being a quart over on oil, though it could smoke like crazy.

You can remove the plug that holds in the relief valve and spring with the engine in place.

What kind and weight of oil are you running, hydraulic lifters like clean thin oil, a synthetic like a 5w30, 5w40, or 10w40 will usually work well.

[IdahoDoug]

Find a good classic VW shop. Many here can recommend or you can look them up. What happened to the engine does not sound like it was good for it, and it requires someone knowledgeable, not someone who's only solution is a huge check.

If not for your description of the engine stopping itself while driving, dash warning lights coming on, and the loss of power, I would agree about the Marvel Mystery Oil. However, this incident sounds like a loss of oil or coolant and likely an overheated engine as a result.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[danfromsyr]

I agree with Dough here, you quite likely toasted your engine..
it's very unlikely lifters, but an unseated rod bearing.

in your first 4weeks how often did you check the fluids?
OIl?
Coolant?
even open the engine lid?

a new relationship with an old/classic car is much like a new love, and that you shouldn't keep your hands off of it, explore every inch, every fragrance, every nuance. getting to know it personally is the only way it'll be a long lived love affair.

not being mean by saying this.. but sorry to inform.
Ignorance truly is bliss, and you are about to become educated, and much less happy.
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[[email protected]]

You're right I should have been more diligent with my inspection of my vehicle. I checked all the fluids when I first got it. Drove it for two weeks. It went low on power so I took it to a shop (where it was at for 4 weeks, they replaced the O2 sensor and temp sensor (this took them 4 weeks). And the problem still wasn't fixed, so I had it moved to Valley Wagonworks (bay area). This is where it's at now. If it does need a new engine, what do you think my best option would be? To get the one I have rebuilt? I'm not looking to upgrade, just get it going and happy again.

Thank you

[Wildthings]

Find an engine that is scheduled to be pulled for a conversion, preferably one that you can take out and road test. Remember that 2.1L engine suffer from rod bolt stretch whose only sign before the engine blows is low hot oil pressure, so getting it hot and seeing whether the oil light comes on at idle or not is important. Do make sure the oil pressure light comes on when you first turn the key, often owners disconnect the oil pressure switch to get rid of the bothersome light.

[maco70]

Hi to all

I hope not hijack the topic, simple wonder to know if the « Marvel mystery oil » can be use as preventive ?

Regards
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Martin from Montréal

1986 Vanagon GL full camper westfalia
(brown/tan interior)

[danfromsyr]

don't beat yourself up too much about it,unfortunately this happens to MANY, many new classic VW owners.

though I do more often hear of initial failures in the Bay forums.

I've owned classic VWs since before they were classics.. and even when I get a new to me one, they still are very risky of imminent failure and fits.
it's like adopting a rescue dog/puppy. you may show nothing but love to them, but there's a period of getting acquainted and they will test your limits. in what they cost or what they ruin.
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[Wildthings]

[vegpedlr]

[vegpedlr]

Four weeks for an O2 and temp sensor!? That's half an hour, including a beer.
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1985 Tintop 4 sp GW 2.3 “Connie”
2006 Mk V GTI 2.0 FSI “Penelope”

[hdenter]

12k is definitely excessive unless you asked to be quoted for replacing EVERYTHING- all hoses, FI components, exhaust etc. With a GW rebuilt long block some fluids and necessary minor bits and pieces you should be closer to 7 or 8k. Much less if you tackled it yourself with a friend and help from here.

If it turns out that you do need a rebuild, I would suggest you considered at least going to 2.1 or 2.2. the cost difference as a percentage of the basic rebuild is not that great. However, the difference in performance is quite noticeable. All of 1.9 bits and pieces will bolt up just fine and the digijet FI will work fine with the small increase in size. Good luck!!

Hans
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender

[Pinetops]

Is that shop going to do anything other than tell you that you need a 12k engine? Are they going to try to diagnose it any more?

As others have said, the cheapest option is to get an running engine from a van that is getting a conversion. Then possibly start saving for a go westy engine or maybe a bostig conversion depending on how well your used engine runs.
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"A rolling bus gathers no rust."