Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Net Neutrality
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3
Forum Index -> Off Topic Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
EverettB Premium Member
Administrator


Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69733
Location: Phoenix Metro
EverettB is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

67ctbug wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/opinion...t.amp.html

To be clear, the above is an opinion piece and not news and honestly, it's straight up gibberish IMHO.

Quote:
When it comes to getting data to your computer or TV, different kinds of data have different requirements. The bits comprising an email don’t need to arrive at your computer all in the same order they were sent, but the bits in streaming video or audio do. Receiving the data bits in the wrong order or at the wrong time can cause video distortions, stutters and other playback problems.

This is from the page linked above. I picked one thing from it that stood out to me.
This paragraph shows a misunderstanding of how data is transferred at the most basic level.

I tried to think of a good comparison for what he is saying to something on a car and the only thing I can come up with is this:
It would be like saying the gas you put in your car has to arrive to the carburetor in the right order or your car will stumble or stall.


Anyway...
The Wikipedia page is pretty good, I just read a lot of it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76760
Location: Sneaking up behind you
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
67ctbug wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/opinion...t.amp.html

To be clear, the above is an opinion piece and not news and honestly, it's straight up gibberish IMHO.

Are you saying that Fox News = Fake News?

Shame on you.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
iowegian Premium Member
Samba Curmudgeon


Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9826
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
iowegian is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:


I tried to think of a good comparison for what he is saying to something on a car and the only thing I can come up with is this:
It would be like saying the gas you put in your car has to arrive to the carburetor in the right order or your car will stumble or stall.


And we all know that the best way to eliminate that "stumble" is to get rid of your 009 dizzy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12454

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
EverettB wrote:
67ctbug wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/opinion...t.amp.html

To be clear, the above is an opinion piece and not news and honestly, it's straight up gibberish IMHO.

Are you saying that Fox News = Fake News?

Shame on you.


A few weeks ago this so called news source completely avoided what everyone else was covering and instead ran a segment on how to prepare a cheeseburger. The demographic which tunes onto this drivel are the least informed, what a shame. I got a huge dose visiting my 90 year old father and senile step mom, they watch this shit exclusively.

On the subject of net neutrality. It’s a sop to businesses looking to control things.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
67ctbug
Samba Member


Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3619
Location: CT
67ctbug is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Glenn wrote:
EverettB wrote:
67ctbug wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/opinion...t.amp.html

To be clear, the above is an opinion piece and not news and honestly, it's straight up gibberish IMHO.

Are you saying that Fox News = Fake News?

Shame on you.


A few weeks ago this so called news source completely avoided what everyone else was covering and instead ran a segment on how to prepare a cheeseburger. The demographic which tunes onto this drivel are the least informed, what a shame. I got a huge dose visiting my 90 year old father and senile step mom, they watch this shit exclusively.

On the subject of net neutrality. It’s a sop to businesses looking to control things.

Are you serious Zundfolge?!? That's insane...
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
KentPS wrote:
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". Laughing

mukluk wrote:
He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeen
Samba Member


Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 1308
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
Zeen is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

iowegian wrote:
EverettB wrote:


I tried to think of a good comparison for what he is saying to something on a car and the only thing I can come up with is this:
It would be like saying the gas you put in your car has to arrive to the carburetor in the right order or your car will stumble or stall.


And we all know that the best way to eliminate that "stumble" is to get rid of your 009 dizzy.


Are you lost?
_________________
The consequences of your decisions should not be confused with fate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33881
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is online now 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

The basic decision is whether you want separation of the "pipe owner" from the "media creator". If one entity controls both, then all you see and hear is controlled by a single entity. This should not be tolerated a free society.

But this is not what we have. Time Warner/Spectrum owns the Dodgers channel, and they own one of only two pipes to my home. And they refuse to allow the "other pipe" to access the Dodger channel unless they pay more for ONE TEAM than those in other cities pay for an ENTIRE SPORTS PACKAGE.

So we see the content creator who owns the pipe dedicating what content I can or cannot see, even if I am willing to pay.

This will creep even further without net neutrality. A company's political views will be given priority over others, and there will not be a "second pipe" available as an alternative, thanks to local regulations and licensing that do not allow sharing of infrastructure.

The "stifling innovation" argument is totally false, a "motherhood" statement invented to sway the ignorant that has no logical reasoning behind it. It's no better than stating that "net neutrality harms puppies."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pwmcguire
Samba Member


Joined: January 30, 2011
Posts: 1108
Location: Kennesaw GA
pwmcguire is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

If it makes it better. it makes it better. If it does not, It can all be undone, the older I get the more I see, when government interferes it gets screwed up. There are many examples.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jspbtown
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5152

jspbtown is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

Quote:
If something is made legal the government below it can not make it illegal.


I would suggest that to be incorrect. One example is firearms. Many states limit what the Federal Government does not.

And no...this is not about gun control...I am just using it as an example. There are many others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cdennisg
Samba Member


Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20231
Location: Sandpoint, ID
cdennisg is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

jspbtown wrote:
Quote:
If something is made legal the government below it can not make it illegal.


I would suggest that to be incorrect. One example is firearms. Many states limit what the Federal Government does not.

And no...this is not about gun control...I am just using it as an example. There are many others.


Yes, that post left out the whole "state's rights" contingency.
_________________
nothing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
heimlich Premium Member
VWNOS.com


Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6554
Location: Houston, Texas
heimlich is online now 

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

jspbtown wrote:
Quote:
If something is made legal the government below it can not make it illegal.


I would suggest that to be incorrect. One example is firearms. Many states limit what the Federal Government does not.



This is allowed. The Federal government never said that there couldn't be any limits until there is case law (rulings by courts) that says this is what they intended.

States have the freedom to make any law they want but that doesn't mean they are legal either (to a previous poster). Just because a state passes a law doesn't mean they can. The Federal government can come in and enforce any law on the books they want. Just because a law is not enforced does not make it legal. The states have many laws on the books that were written there a long time ago that are not enforced. Look up stupid or ridiculous laws for your state. Just type "Ridiculous laws for XYZ" where xyz is your state.

The Federal government is actually quite useful for universal laws. Think about interstate commerce. Without interstate commerce laws where do you think we would be? Right now you can take your car and travel to any other state legally. The other state has to respect the laws of your state where the car is registered. Without these laws you would have to refit your car every time you left your home state just.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cali_Army_Guy
Samba Member


Joined: March 19, 2015
Posts: 2094
Location: Stockton, CA
Cali_Army_Guy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

kawfee wrote:


The Federal government is actually quite useful for universal laws. Think about interstate commerce. Without interstate commerce laws where do you think we would be? Right now you can take your car and travel to any other state legally. The other state has to respect the laws of your state where the car is registered. Without these laws you would have to refit your car every time you left your home state just.


If only this worked with our second amendment RIGHT like it does with the PRIVILEGE of driving an automobile.
_________________
2015 VW Passat Wolfsburg Edition
1966 VW Beetle - Sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
heimlich Premium Member
VWNOS.com


Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6554
Location: Houston, Texas
heimlich is online now 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

Cali_Army_Guy wrote:
kawfee wrote:


The Federal government is actually quite useful for universal laws. Think about interstate commerce. Without interstate commerce laws where do you think we would be? Right now you can take your car and travel to any other state legally. The other state has to respect the laws of your state where the car is registered. Without these laws you would have to refit your car every time you left your home state just.


If only this worked with our second amendment RIGHT like it does with the PRIVILEGE of driving an automobile.


Yes, it really is a mish mash of laws covering the country.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ROCKOROD71
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 2770
Location: Boston, MA
ROCKOROD71 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
67ctbug wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/opinion...t.amp.html

Wait... so net neutrality actually gave more power to the government?

Yes!

NO!
It took all the power from the corporations. How do people not get this? The Obama era "regulation" was put in place to stop private companies from force feeding you what they want, blocking other content etc. The reason they were put in place was there had been dozens of court cases finding big telecom companies GUILTY of throttling competition, blocking websites, slowing down streaming services of their competitors, etc. For someone so inclined these are FACTS that can be looked up. Not fake news, not alternative facts, these are COURT CASES that are documented. People looooove the free market until it starts ramming them from behind. Doesn't everyone just ADORE the baggage fees we all pay to fly now? 'member when those were free? There has to be reasonable regulation or else free market companies start cornering the market then putting the screws to you. Recently they discovered Apple was throttling their own products. Making the older phones run slower, in order to get you out to the store to buy a new one. I mean, their shareholders certainly don't mind, so sucks to the rest of us?
"State's rights?" Don't get me goin on that. People love states rights until their state does something they don't like. Both sides are guilty of this. In Boston they make it almost impossible for me to get a gun. Even if I get one I cannot carry it, and 3 people got shot on my street this year. So i guess if I wanna protect myself I gotta go lawless and buy one out of the trunk of a car. Meanwhile in other states if a woman makes a mistake or gets raped and has an unwanted pregnancy she faces a slew of hurdles and likely a multiple hour trek across state lines if she wants an abortion. In CA bus owners cannot keep their rigs on the road because there is no approved CAT converter they can actually buy to be compliant with the law, even if the exhaust is dialed in enough to pass a sniffer test, its got the wrong CAT hacked in, so FAIL. What friggin sense does that make?
Everything is screwy these days and you can't always get what you want. It sounds like stupid hippy bullshit but for real, everyone in the US needs to pause and hug it out for cryin out loud. We all just want peaceful co-existence and to not be taken advantage of, by corporations or state, or junkies and criminals for that matter.
/end rant
_________________
1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI
79SuperVert wrote:

30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it.


asiab3 wrote:

Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days.


**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy**
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sb001
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10399
Location: NW Arkansas
sb001 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
If Netflix's streaming requires that much more data, then why should they not pay more for it?


It DOESN'T. THAT'S the point.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sb001
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10399
Location: NW Arkansas
sb001 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

Zeen wrote:


So Google Fiber was introduced before the net neutrality rules came into effect, and continued during. There is no correlation, and it can continue if they lapse. The reason our broadband sucks is due to a lack of competition, not lack of regulation.



THHHIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSS.... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

is what it all boils down to.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Volks Wagen
Samba Member


Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2926
Location: Germany
Volks Wagen is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
67ctbug wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/opinion...t.amp.html

To be clear, the above is an opinion piece and not news and honestly, it's straight up gibberish IMHO.

Quote:
When it comes to getting data to your computer or TV, different kinds of data have different requirements. The bits comprising an email don’t need to arrive at your computer all in the same order they were sent, but the bits in streaming video or audio do. Receiving the data bits in the wrong order or at the wrong time can cause video distortions, stutters and other playback problems.

This is from the page linked above. I picked one thing from it that stood out to me.
This paragraph shows a misunderstanding of how data is transferred at the most basic level.

I tried to think of a good comparison for what he is saying to something on a car and the only thing I can come up with is this:
It would be like saying the gas you put in your car has to arrive to the carburetor in the right order or your car will stumble or stall.


Anyway...
The Wikipedia page is pretty good, I just read a lot of it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality


Hi Everett,

This is not gibberish at all. The quote makes a perfectly valid point. It highlights the differences between TCP and UDP. UDP will often be used for live video streams, gaming etc. UDP does not care if it loses packets - it's a fire and forget protocol. UDP is used cos it can be faster although less reliable so it's suitable for live video streams to many end clients, TCP has more overhead and is a connection based protocoll guaranteeing delivery via acknowledgements returned from the client - like signing for receipt of a DHL delivery. If TCP packet arrive out of order at the end user, TCP will reorder the packets so they make sense. If UDP packets arrive out of order then so be it.

The point I suppose of the whole article is that if network providers provide QoS Quality of Service guarantees to network users or services then they are guaranteeing quality/priority of that services traffic, and that comes at a price that should be paid for. Simple as that. It's not about blocking competitors traffic etc. You have to differentiate between private network service providers and the internet. If someone will hook you to their content delivery network so you receive a quality video stream, then they should obviously be allowed to protect that service, and also offer available bandwidth to other applications as and how they see fit. If customers don't like the service or providers don't like the terms they get off the bus.

And as a car analogy, it would be mor like saying the spark has to arrive at the plug at the right time or the car will stumble.

Regards,
Volkswagen
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.

I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.

Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EverettB Premium Member
Administrator


Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69733
Location: Phoenix Metro
EverettB is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

Ok, you make a good point that they could be talking about streaming services and UDP except they mention Netflix and YouTube, which are generally not a live stream and are TCP-based.

I shouldn't have to pay more to get general live streaming via the Internet, it's still just data. If it's some private network because my business needs a direct connection to another business, sure, that is a special thing.

Anyways... I can randomly pick something else that is wrong/misleading from the article at ease:
Quote:
Market forces already protected consumers, because if an ISP started deliberately slowing down people’s favorite websites and streaming services, or putting an end to free speech, consumers would simply switch to a different ISP.

No. In tons of locations there is either only one choice at all or one choice you can make** and the providers have been known to sue cities who try to give people another choice. In AZ, Cox sued the city of Tempe to prevent Google Fiber.

** Example: Where I live we have 2 choices but really you can only have Cox because the other one is too slow.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crofty
Judas of the North


Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19670
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
crofty is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Net Neutrality Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Ok, you make a good point that they could be talking about streaming services and UDP except they mention Netflix and YouTube, which are generally not a live stream and are TCP-based.

I shouldn't have to pay more to get general live streaming via the Internet, it's still just data. If it's some private network because my business needs a direct connection to another business, sure, that is a special thing.

Anyways... I can randomly pick something else that is wrong/misleading from the article at ease:
Quote:
Market forces already protected consumers, because if an ISP started deliberately slowing down people’s favorite websites and streaming services, or putting an end to free speech, consumers would simply switch to a different ISP.

No. In tons of locations there is either only one choice at all or one choice you can make** and the providers have been known to sue cities who try to give people another choice. In AZ, Cox sued the city of Tempe to prevent Google Fiber.

** Example: Where I live we have 2 choices but really you can only have Cox because the other one is too slow.


And here in NorCal you have Comcast. Pure evil.
_________________
Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.

HamburgerBrad wrote:

I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Off Topic All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.