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bearwin Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2004 Posts: 284 Location: san diego,california
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: Horn honks when turning |
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So i was driving my 64 bug going to work, horn suddenly honks when turnng, so i disconnected the wire connected to the horn ring. Put tape on the wire. Still honking when turning... so i discovered when i jiggle my steering wheel, it turns out the canceller hits the tube, thats why it activates d horn. What should i do? Or is there something i shld check out? Thanks for d help guys |
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chrism0107 Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2014 Posts: 30 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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I had this happen to me turned out the wire was rubbing on the bottom of the fuel tank where it exits the shaft |
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saintperez Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2017 Posts: 49 Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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bearwin wrote: |
So i was driving my 64 bug going to work, horn suddenly honks when turnng, so i disconnected the wire connected to the horn ring. Put tape on the wire. Still honking when turning... so i discovered when i jiggle my steering wheel, it turns out the canceller hits the tube, thats why it activates d horn. What should i do? Or is there something i shld check out? Thanks for d help guys |
I’m having the same problem. I checked under the gas tank but doesn’t look like it’s that and I’m guessing it the same issue you’re describing. Did you find a solution yet? |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9651 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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Remember that the horn on a '64, and most other years as of approx. 1960 has power going to it whenever the ignition is on. The circuit is completed so that the horn sounds when you connect the ground side of the horn. The wire for the ground is the one that bridges the rubber steering joint at the steering box, then travels up inside the steering column to end at the steering wheel hub horn contacts. If you disconnect the wire terminal at the steering wheel horn ring and tape it off yet the horn still sounds, then this indicates the wire inside the steering column has a bare spot that is touching metal and giving your ground.
30 yrs ago on my '64 Ghia which has the same setup as a Beetle, it would also honk when I turned the steering wheel... I ran a new insulated electrical wire up the column, think it was 18 gauge, and that cleared up the problem. |
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saintperez Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2017 Posts: 49 Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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Rome wrote: |
If you disconnect the wire terminal at the steering wheel horn ring and tape it off yet the horn still sounds, then this indicates the wire inside the steering column has a bare spot that is touching metal and giving your ground. |
Very possible but this is a brand new 16 gauge wire I put in so i know it's not bare. I'm thinking it's metal cancelers that are part of the shaft are some how hitting the column. |
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REDKAFER Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2006 Posts: 90 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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The turn signal cancelling tabs should not have anything to do with the horn honking as the turn signal housing + steering column tube + steering shaft are the same polarity (they are always in contact with each other so incidental contact with the cancelling tabs should make no difference). The wire that runs from the horn ring to the steering box is your only ground there as the chassis ground is electrically isolated from the steering shaft via the rubber coupling so if you've disconnected that wire and its still honking I reckon you've: got a bare spot on the wire (unlikely if its new but hey, ive seen less likely stuff happen), the connector is brushing up against something with a + polarity (make sure the little push-on connector at the steering coupling is plenty clear of the bolts that connect to the shaft), your rubber insulators for the steering tube have rotten out and theres a short there somewhere (check the rubber seal through the firewall and more likely the rubber ring that separates the steering tube and the bracket under the dash), or lastly you've got a short inside your turn signal switch (which I would imagine causing other electrical goofiness with lights as well).
Good hunting. |
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saintperez Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2017 Posts: 49 Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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REDKAFER wrote: |
The turn signal cancelling tabs should not have anything to do with the horn honking as the turn signal housing + steering column tube + steering shaft are the same polarity (they are always in contact with each other so incidental contact with the cancelling tabs should make no difference). The wire that runs from the horn ring to the steering box is your only ground there as the chassis ground is electrically isolated from the steering shaft via the rubber coupling so if you've disconnected that wire and its still honking I reckon you've: got a bare spot on the wire (unlikely if its new but hey, ive seen less likely stuff happen), the connector is brushing up against something with a + polarity (make sure the little push-on connector at the steering coupling is plenty clear of the bolts that connect to the shaft), your rubber insulators for the steering tube have rotten out and theres a short there somewhere (check the rubber seal through the firewall and more likely the rubber ring that separates the steering tube and the bracket under the dash), or lastly you've got a short inside your turn signal switch (which I would imagine causing other electrical goofiness with lights as well).
Good hunting. |
Thank you very much for all the leads. Many things to consider. I will say that rubber that the rubber insulator at the firewall that goes around the column as well as the one under the dash that holds the column up to the dash are all new. When you say:
(make sure the little push-on connector at the steering coupling is plenty clear of the bolts that connect to the shaft) Can you explain that a little more? Are you saying the tab should be on one of the bolts that doesn't directly connect to the shaft but rather the steering box? I'm pretty sure that's how I have it setup but just want to make sure.
I will have to disconnect the wire at the coupler and test if the honking is still happening.
Thanks again! |
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REDKAFER Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2006 Posts: 90 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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saintperez wrote: |
Are you saying the tab should be on one of the bolts that doesn't directly connect to the shaft but rather the steering box? I'm pretty sure that's how I have it setup but just want to make sure.
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Affirmative. The wire should connect to the steering box, not the shaft. Also, the connector that links the steering column tube to the horn itself needs to not brush up against any part of the chassis as that would short it out. Probably not the issue if its only honking when you turn since that wire is static. |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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Ive seen it so that the wire comes out of the hole in the shaft and over the rag joint to attached to a tab on the bolt that makes contact with the steering box shaft. I have also seen it where the tab was on the driver side of the rag joint and attached to the same bolt, just on the drivers side of the rag joint, not the steering box side. _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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saintperez Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2017 Posts: 49 Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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Sharp64 wrote: |
Ive seen it so that the wire comes out of the hole in the shaft and over the rag joint to attached to a tab on the bolt that makes contact with the steering box shaft. I have also seen it where the tab was on the driver side of the rag joint and attached to the same bolt, just on the drivers side of the rag joint, not the steering box side. |
I think the point is making sure it's making contact with the ground at the steering box. |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26320 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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I've been working all week so I'm late to this discussion...
When I had a problem with unintentional horn action in my 62, it was due to missing having the rubber bumper between the column tube and the body, with that not in place, the two can contact, eventually the paint will start to wear thin and that can give the horn another ground path.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211881895
_________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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als1963stockbug Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2011 Posts: 1 Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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SAME PROBLEM: Hello... I have owned two beetles that had horn issues... for years, this drove me crazy as, at one point I even disconnected (AND REMOVED) the horn wire that runs up the column of the 1963 stock beetle (Horn itself still connected under the fender) and the thing still sounded off when I would turn right or left... what tha!!!!
SOLUTION: As it turns out, when the rubber steering coupling disk between the steering column and the steering gear box wears out and the rubber deteriorates, the wire reinforcing inside the rubber disc will ground out on the four bolts that run through the disc. This creates a ground tot he system that you would normally get with your horn button on the steering wheel and, wa-la... BEEEEP!!!
SO, replace that rubber disc... fairly straight forward operation... I unbolted my gas tank and set it to the side (had just enough slack in the fuel line...you may not), and completed the task in short order. NO MORE "BEEP"!!!
I give credit for this solution to Chris Vallone of "Classic VW Bugs" up in New York. I sent him an e-mail about it and he nailed on the first response as he has seen this many a time before... so, all this "wire shorting out" stuff is a lot of bunk. Replace the steering coupling Disc! |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26320 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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I kind of glossed over this latest reply. I'm surprised to hear of an original German coupler disk having this problem. However, it is a KNOWN issue with some aftermarket steering couplers. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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buggeezer Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2013 Posts: 323 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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Please let me comment about the horn problem in this 1958 EUROPEAN bug I am restoring. I just started the Facebook page, " VW Mania" about VW restorations. This bug horn blows when the steering shaft is moved, and I found out why. Here is how the horn works on this European bug and probably other 58's as well. The horn wire runs down the inside of the steering wheel shaft and comes out and connects to a copper contact area all around the shaft about a foot down on the shaft. The rubber coupling has NOTHING to do with the horn on this model.. So.... the horn has constant battery power and when the ground terminal is grounded by way of the horn brush and holder, which is mounted on the steering column housing, and horn button too, of course, and the horn brush rides on the copper contact area on the shaft. My problem is that the horn brush holder and brush does not align with the copper contact area on the shaft. Think about this. The wheel and column has to be at a certain gap, no exceptions, for the turn signal to work properly. So... what I am saying to you is, that it cannot be "adjusted out' and this 1858 must have a different, incorrect, column housing or steering shaft. My solution, as I see it, unless you have better solution, is to relocate the steering brush holder to match the contact area on the shaft. Comments? |
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buggeezer Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2013 Posts: 323 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Horn honks when turning |
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Maybe these photos will clarify why I had to move the horn brush holder. I cannot give a reason why the brush holder and the brush contact area on the steering shaft did not line up. The brush was barely touching the contact area and sometimes contacting the shaft causing the horn to blow.
[/img] |
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buggeezer Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2013 Posts: 323 Location: USA
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