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dcavy Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2013 Posts: 15 Location: oswego il
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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So Im hoping someone here can help me out with an idea for alternate cooling for my volksrod project. Im going at this with a different approach where I would like to not run the doghouse just due to it sticking up thru the window area. The idea on the build was to try and keep as much of the motor unexposed other than the area where the rear decklid would be. Ive re indexed where the rear torsion housing sits moving it about 10 inches forward and at least 8" higher to run a tall tire as you can see by the profile pic. Ive looked high and low for the horizontal fan setup but no one seems to make it anymore, and an electric setup I've heard cannot support the cfm needed for good cooling. Ive even tried the type 3 setup but it hangs out so far that it looks like I have a jet engine hanging off the back and have no way to hide it. Any help?
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vwuberalles Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2003 Posts: 1357 Location: Richmond, VA
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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dcavy wrote: |
S. Ive even tried the type 3 setup but it hangs out so far that it looks like I have a jet engine hanging off the back and have no way to hide it. ] |
Why hide it.. Embrace it.. It goes with the raw mechanical look..
The Corvair engine is longer than the Type 3 set up.. and a horizontal fan set up.. sucks..
A fan kit could be ceated... using some corvair parts . but the fan mount itself would be the kicker.. Corvair set up is similar.. but very different..
You cant find the Vw Horizontal fan kit anymore.. cause it didn't work well.. fried alot of engines..
Plus there is the whole carb issue and intake if you want to use stockish parts there...
Id convert it to Type 3 fan and roll .
If you dont like the rear fan look... build a louvered/mesh cover for it..
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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vaughn bros. Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2003 Posts: 2395 Location: Hickory, NC
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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If that's a carb and velocity stack location in the back window, then I'm sold. Wild looking ride. |
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eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:09 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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You may start with a remote oil cooler to free up space on the motor, and pull some heat away. Creating a fan & housing my be the option to go with if you are not a lover of the type 3 look. ( you may want to look at Neil's bubble top build) You could just run some duct work & do the same as a BMW bike, drive fast, engine stays cool. Keep us posted. Cool looking ride. _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
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Bashr52 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006 Posts: 5666 Location: On an island in VA
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:29 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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IF you managed to get enough ducting around the engine to drive air over the rights spots when the car was moving, you will still overheat quickly when stopped.....
If you do not want the height and look of the Type 1 setup, type 3 or 4 are really the only other options. |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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looks like even t3 cooling would be a tight fit unless you move the vent section up a bit and 'chop' the rear window opening some more. probably the easiest route. what is your plan for generator/alternator mounting? looks like that will be tricky too.
it almost looks like you have room to create some custom duct work to blow up from the bottom rather than from the top down. maybe if you run a pair of mini alternators you will have the power you need to run fans and do it that way? also mounting them under the crank case? not sure...post up a few more pics from the rear. |
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dcavy Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2013 Posts: 15 Location: oswego il
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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I had tried the type 3 cooling fan set up but it looked more like I strapped a jet onto the back. |
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dcavy Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2013 Posts: 15 Location: oswego il
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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I would have no problem using small fans with ducting but I believe they cannot support the cfm air volume to cool the heads when at a traffic light but if someone has has success please let me know. |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16757 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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I think there is data on here as far as CFMs a stock fan puts out. Was a pretty large number. Found it - Rob and Daves
Note: Air flow for the non-doghouse 1300/1500/1600cc engines is 20 cubic feet per second at 4000 rpm. The doghouse cooling fan is wider and blows around 25cf/sec @ 4000rpm, which is why cars with this cooling set-up NEED a slotted engine lid - the slots under the rear window are simply not large enough to provide the doghouse fan running with enough air at higher speeds.
So - looking at 1200 CFM....AND there is a little more to it because of the load. And there are pusher and puller type fans. Probably need at least a 10" or maybe a pair of 8 or 9". Assuming you took care of oil coiling separately, it would not be that difficult as long as you used stock cylinder tins. You just need to fab ductwork to give a nice transition from the fans (I would try to do 2 smaller ones) into the top of the cylinder tins. Why not.....
But pancake coolling with the extra ports for cabin heat cut off could be kind of cool and put a fan guard over the fan and paint the fan black. You will loose the jet engine effect. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:35 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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I remember seeing a kit car of sorts with 2 squirrel cage fans on top of the factory VW tins. They had some ducting running under the car. Not sure on the operation, but that may work. _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
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Bashr52 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006 Posts: 5666 Location: On an island in VA
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:58 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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Do a search in the performance section on electric cooling, it's been covered MANY times. The power required to run the fans the size you need is more than the engine can produce. Drag cars run squirrel fans on top of the cylinders to run between runs down the track, but they are not enough to run at all times.
What about a subie conversion? |
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eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:44 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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Something like this _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
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dcavy Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2013 Posts: 15 Location: oswego il
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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When this project started I wanted to go more into the direction of a motorcycle engine in the front and run a rear wheel drive set up but didn’t have the knowledge, resources, or the finances to build an all out tube chassis. I’ve seen many do the s-10 conversion but everything to me is so bulky then your crammed into the rear of the car just to sit. My other option idea was I saw someone used a v twin before but never could find the resource for an adaptor plate. Don’t know if it would have the same cooling issues considering it has air passing around it with no fans at all. I guess my big concern is the heating up at a traffic light. I’ve also brainstormed on one of the ideas mentioned earlier that I could blow 2 600 cfm 8” fans over the top of the motor in a custom panel like parcel tray blowing down on the heads and I already have a remote cooler on order. As far as airflow While moving I was thinking naca ducts in the side windows to deliver fresh air in. Any thoughts? |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16757 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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Problem with naca ducts is not knowing how the air is actually going to flow...Placement is real important and I know enough about this kind of thing to realize that I don't know much at all.... _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:02 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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Google Emerson Fittipaldi's double engine beetle.
Mid engine set up, but I think the routing of the air into the engine is an interesting thought. It used to push so much air in the car the top of the doors would start to open up.
_________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
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Jacks Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2006 Posts: 2348 Location: San Clemente, Ca.
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Petfisheric Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2014 Posts: 121 Location: Knoxville, TN
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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The Fittipaldi setup had the windshield canted back to make a ram air setup forcing the air through the ducting while moving. I have seen some corvair systems for type1 motors here is a link. https://www.speedsterowners.com/topic/std-vw-cooli...5770318909 |
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eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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This may be a bit shiny for you, but.... _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
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vaughn bros. Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2003 Posts: 2395 Location: Hickory, NC
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:41 am Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea |
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From Facebook.
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