1500 Beetle Engine CFM

[neisman]

On my custom Beetle, I must route cooling air from a new location.
Can anybody tell me how mant CFM a 1500 engine needs for cooling?
Also, are there aftermarket fans that deliver more air to the cylinders?

[glutamodo]

Remember, the engine code is a BORN-ON specification, it does not indicate anything that was done after that.

So, are you sure it's really even a 1493cc engine? Really, since the early 1970s, the go-to option at rebuild time was to bolt on 85.5mm pistons and cylinders, resulting in 1584cc. So, if it might have been rebuilt once in the last 45 years....
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Andy T.


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[gt1953]

Just finally rebuilt my 1493cc engine last week after 50 yrs yes it did have 83 piston and cyl and was the first time ever. All the bearing were stamped with VW logo. So now I have a new born on date.
You should be fine with the 1584cc engine using the 1493cc fan.
Do tell us more about the "custom Beetle".
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[Maddel]

Something like this?

Taken from this article: http://www.offroadvw.net/tech/wes/fan.html

[bluebus86]

of course the graph probably assumes no inlet restriction on the fan. At high rpm, the larger fan draws a vacuum in the engine bay of cars with non louvered deck lids, unless the lid is opened a bit. with that vacuum, the air flow is reduced, even robbing air from the needs of the carb, so engine chokes itself. I know, I put a large fan in an early Bug, solid deck lid and she choked at high speed, under load, until I propped open the deck lid

Good Luck, Bug On, where ever the wind blows you!
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[neisman]

And there you have my conundrum. On my Hebmueller type custom, I do not want to use louvers on the hood or top of the body. I also want to avoid them on the quarter panels.
My thought is to duct engine cooling air from the front of the car through the shifter tunnel. I am wondering if I can get enough air through there to cool the engine. I suppose I will just have to experiment a bit. Thanks everybody!

[AlmostHeavenWV_VW]

If you make your 'shifter tunnel air intake' a "ram-air" style, I bet you could get some serious CFMs back to the fan.

Leave the inspection cover off (or enlarge it) and put some ducting to make the best of the available airflow. Make sure to get you a very good air filter. You don't want all that road debris ending up in the tunnel ( or into the cooling fan)

A note to consider with this design: That will be noisy in the passenger compartment.

Perhaps a 'ram-air' style intake snout that just comes down from the engine compartment and the snout is underneath the car? Maybe terminating around the level of the transaxle?
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1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor

[VW_Jimbo]

[airschooled]

Later model bugs even had louvers behind the license plate. (Of course, they were thermostatically controlled to open only when the engine was hot…)

That chart's a little funky… Anybody have a link to that dude's dissertation that showed around 4,800 engine RPM (8k-9k fan RPM) the belt started to slip and the fan wouldn't go any faster as the engine did?

Robbie
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[Maddel]

[AlmostHeavenWV_VW]

[andk5591]

I don't remember if we talked about this

I ended up putting a couple small fans in it after still having some overheating issues. It cured the problem, but one of these days I need to do a cleaner fan installation. The other thing you want to take into account is getting rid of the hot air from the top of the engine. On the woodie, I opened up the bottom of the tailgate a little to do that.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[ashman40]

The problem with pulling air from below the car is dust/dirt. You will need some type of filter to avoid pumping dust into the carb intakes. Yes, your carb(s) should have air cleaners but you don’t want to intentionally foul them with dirty air. This is why the engine vents are on the top of the car where the air is cool and relatively clean.

Another option is to add filtered openings in the rear wheel wells. I know I saw a thread where someone created a custom box in each rear wheel well that allowed air to flow into the engine compartment thru filters. I couldn’t find that thread but I found a classified add for access panels at the same spots. Maybe you could start from there. Panels in the wheel wells would be well hidden from the exterior but allow a larger volume of air flow into the engine compartment. Coming from the wheel wells the air would bea little less likely to recirculate hot air from under the engine.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=989492
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AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[bluebus86]

[andk5591]

Dirt being drawn up is an issue with my set up....But then, I have a mile long dirt and gravel lane. But if going to a show, I leave early so there is still a little dew on the lane, so, little dust. Even after a couple hour drive, the engine is still pretty clean. I have a 1/2" wire mesh at the air box entrance to prevent large stuff from getting in. So, overall, it works.

However, as mentioned, there were problems initially. Highway speeds were no issue, but low speed cruising or coming in my lane (20 MPH) elevated engine temps. Pretty sure I used two 8" Derale fans that are about 500 cfm each.

This process was all trial and error. My tailgate had a a bit of a gap at the bottom to help draw air through the engine compartment (negative pressure), but I opened that up a bit more after adding the fans. Don't remember the the exact square inches, but I am pretty sure that I calculated the actual vent size of the stock VW louvers and came close.

And I had also gone through a lot of iterations for other cooling designs (inner fenders, etc) before settling on what I did.

Now here is something interesting though, I have a second VW Woodie built around 40 years ago that is completely different. Based on a type 3 engine compartment and engine, the car draws cooling air from behind the rear wheels. This car has traveled over 100,000 miles (many of those hauling a tear drop trailer) without an engine rebuild.

Just a some stuff to ponder.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[ashman40]

[neisman]

[quote="Maddel"]
What's wrong with the Hebmüller style louvers?

I don't know that anything is wrong with them.

[neisman]

I want to keep as much storage space behind the seats as possible so I will avoid an air box that large.

[andk5591]

Here is something to do, and I am sure that I can't find my data. The air input to the engine is the louvers above the deck lid and the louvers on the deck lid for later cars. The actual area is not that large... In particular the louvers above the deck lid....The actual openings are quite a bit smaller. I thinking it was under 100 sg'? Any way, I folks have used cut outs behind the license plate and other places to get an opening that is not obvious.

AND you can use multiple locations to get the air.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[neisman]

I am dieing to get the body back from the body shop. I really cannot do much till then except research and plan. The body man is not too keen on me working on the car in his shop.
That is a great idea. I will measure the OEM grill openings and start from there.