Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Another fuel sender repair method T2a
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
VeloMikey
Samba Member


Joined: March 19, 2012
Posts: 646
Location: So Cal
VeloMikey is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Here it is disassembled. Looks like the wire to the lug broke. Simple soldier job to repair it. Do I need to use special wire or will anything work?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
'58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed

Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51057
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Little tiny winches to tension the hair wire, how cool is that!? They don't make stuff like that anymore. Cool

Yes regular copper wire will do that job fine.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TomWesty
Samba Member


Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
TomWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Little tiny winches to tension the hair wire, how cool is that!? They don't make stuff like that anymore. Cool

Yes regular copper wire will do that job fine.
Yeah, that’s cool. Tension it with the winch and lock it down with the set screw.
_________________
If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

TomWesty wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
Little tiny winches to tension the hair wire, how cool is that!? They don't make stuff like that anymore. Cool

Yes regular copper wire will do that job fine.
Yeah, that’s cool. Tension it with the winch and lock it down with the set screw.


y'all should have been around when we went from stones to copper.... the iron guys who came along behind us didn't have a clue how that stuff worked......
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sodbuster
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 1082
Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
sodbuster is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

I'm in the process of going through my bus after it's engine gave up the ghost. Along with the rebuild one of the things on the "while I'm in there" list is to get my fuel gauge working again. It has always kind of worked but not too well. whenever I would fill up the gauge would read either full or a little over 3/4 of a tank. It would function ok at first, then the needle would just dive to empty with the tank at least 3/4 full.

So "while I was in there" I pulled my fuel tank to get at the sending unit. With sending unit in hand I started checking the sender out using Telfods exelent repair notes. It tested good. 3.3 ohms full 78.4 ohms empty It's testing good. Give it a bit of a shake a few light taps nothing is fazing the reading on the meter. It's solid.

I was a little confused to discover this. The sending unit seemed fine. So I forged ahead and checked the gauge. When the sending unit wire was grounded the needle on the gauge would not go much past 3/4. Now I am questioning the gauge instead of the sending unit at this point. So I decide to put it down for awhile and work on some thing else.

I ventured to have another look last night and wouldn't you know, the sending unit has now gone jankey on me and is now clearly testing bad. Upon further inspection I deemed it a prime cannadate for Telfords repair method which I will do. (I also have another I can fix as well.) But it is the guage itself that has me tapping the keys today.

Unlike the later models that have a "vibrator" included on the fuel gauge circut to drop voltage to the gauge. The early bays do not have this component. The Bently shows two wires to the fuel gauge on my '71 bus. One from the sending unit and another from the #15 terminal on the fuse block. This is a strait 12 volt tap through the ignition switch. (key'd hot.) There is nothing before the gauge to drop voltage to it. So either it is not required or is internal to the gauge I don't know which.

So here is where I am at with this. I need to effect a repair of the sending unit. Hopefully that will stop the guage from suddenly dropping off to empty. But what to do about the gauge not going all the way to full? Obviously a voltage check of the #15 wire to the gauge is in order as well as checking and cleaning any grounds I come across under the dash. if the voltage test to the guage is good what else short of replacing the gauge outright need to be checked beyond what I have already listed?


Last edited by sodbuster on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:46 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
telford dorr
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3547
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
telford dorr is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Your tests are correct. Open circuit at the sender should read empty. Short to ground should read full. Check all of the connections in the sender circuit (including the fuse).

Early Bays have no voltage regulator. 12 volts direct to the indicator. Indicator to sender. Sender to ground.

Senders tend to either work or not work. As a sanity check, check your meter probes. Sometimes it helps to take a ScotchBrite pad to the probe tips, which get oxidized over time and give you bad readings. Short the tips together and verify that you read less than 1 ohm.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sodbuster
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 1082
Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
sodbuster is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

telford dorr wrote:
Your tests are correct. Open circuit at the sender should read empty. Short to ground should read full. Check all of the connections in the sender circuit (including the fuse).

Early Bays have no voltage regulator. 12 volts direct to the indicator. Indicator to sender. Sender to ground.

Senders tend to either work or not work. As a sanity check, check your meter probes. Sometimes it helps to take a ScotchBrite pad to the probe tips, which get oxidized over time and give you bad readings. Short the tips together and verify that you read less than 1 ohm.


Thanks for the confermation Telford. Looks like a voltage drop test is what is next up in the process. Just to see if the gauge is getting everything it needs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51057
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

sodbuster wrote:
But what to do about the gauge not going all the way to full? Obviously a voltage check of the #15 wire to the gauge is in order as well as checking and cleaning any grounds I come across under the dash. if the voltage test to the guage is good what else short of replacing the gauge outright need to be checked beyond what I have already listed?

Mine did that for years until it finally died last year (the almost full thing, mine didn't drop randomly), after repairing the sender ground and soldering the G wire side of the circuit on both the wet and top side of the rivet it now reads full like one would expect it to. It's not just the ground connection that gets weak.
Soldering the G side is a little tricky, linger too long with the iron and you'll melt the plastic ferrule it goes through, you can rehammer the rivet to tighten it up, but bucking it in a vice and holding it as you hammer requires maximum pucker, that hair wire is always in the danger zone. An alternate fix would be run a second wire through the lid for the G and seal it just like the ground.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sodbuster
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 1082
Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
sodbuster is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
sodbuster wrote:
But what to do about the gauge not going all the way to full? Obviously a voltage check of the #15 wire to the gauge is in order as well as checking and cleaning any grounds I come across under the dash. if the voltage test to the guage is good what else short of replacing the gauge outright need to be checked beyond what I have already listed?

Mine did that for years until it finally died last year (the almost full thing, mine didn't drop randomly), after repairing the sender ground and soldering the G wire side of the circuit on both the wet and top side of the rivet it now reads full like one would expect it to. It's not just the ground connection that gets weak.
Soldering the G side is a little tricky, linger too long with the iron and you'll melt the plastic ferrule it goes through, you can rehammer the rivet to tighten it up, but bucking it in a vice and holding it as you hammer requires maximum pucker, that hair wire is always in the danger zone. An alternate fix would be run a second wire through the lid for the G and seal it just like the ground.


Looks like the path of least resistince at this point. I'm gonna let that sleeping dog of a gauge lay. Though I did take my sending unit in with me to work where I have access to better quality soldering tools and equipment.
I'll instal it and put the tank back in when I get home today. Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

By the way. That final OHM test to check the repair was sweet sweet victory. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sloans265
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2004
Posts: 1321
Location: 32207
sloans265 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

So I rebuilt my sending unit but it appears I still have a problem with it(?) Empty the sender is reading @ 75 resistance and 2.8 resistance FULL. However when I hooked it up to the gauge for testing the gauge went straight to FULL.
I got another “tested” gauge and still same result Gauge says full when sender is at empty. HOWEVER when you move float on sender up to full you can see needle just barely move up itself..
For what it’s worth I did hook it up to a beetle speedo/fuel gauge I had laying around and that gauge did respond.
Is there something I’m overlooking? The performed the only “test” I found for the gauge and it passed. I’m not going through harness, I’m using gauge/sender/battery
Thanks for any help!
_________________
1970 Lotus White Panel
In search of any Pensacola Fla dealership items
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Kiwi1966
Samba Member


Joined: August 18, 2009
Posts: 168
Location: Ohoka New Zealand
Kiwi1966 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Hi just to add to this post , I did the upgrade as per the previous posts but the little nichrome wire broke on me when reasembling.Measured the old wire and it measured out at 0.08 mm which eqyates to 40 awg.Ended going to a local vape store and getting this 40 gauge nichrome 80 wire, cheap as for a 300 foot roll which should do a few senders Very Happy
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
busdaddy
Samba Member


Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51057
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
busdaddy is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Cool Cool thanks for passing that along, I assume the OHM's remain in the ballpark with the new wire?
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Kiwi1966
Samba Member


Joined: August 18, 2009
Posts: 168
Location: Ohoka New Zealand
Kiwi1966 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:25 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Yes 67 ohms per foot, sender is 3 ohms full and 82 ohms empty.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hillsfield
Samba Member


Joined: July 27, 2016
Posts: 3

hillsfield is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Thanks Telford dorr for putting together this repair 'how to'. Just followed step by step for my 69 Ghia and it worked perfectly. Simple fix. thanks again
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
telford dorr
Samba Member


Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3547
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
telford dorr is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Glad it worked out. Consider yourself saved from the curse of replacement chinese junk...

Note: original website URL changed: http://telforddorr.com/FuelSenderRepair/
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Elle_VW1972Microbus
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2020
Posts: 12
Location: United States
Elle_VW1972Microbus is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Thanks so much to Telford Dorr for posting his guide with amazing photos. Today I successfully repaired the sender in a VW Bay Window Bus (date of manufacture, 9/72). Its sending unit is the tubular (internal float) design, but the top of the sending unit is slightly different from Telford Dorr's. The different design allowed modification as follows:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
An inexpensive Harbor Freight 1/16-inch drill bit worked fine to drill the hole. The drill bits are sold in packs of half a dozen or so for a couple dollars. The copper wire is 20 gauge. A few more photos:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Part number 211919051 and date of manufacture 7 / 71 appears on top of this sending unit:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by Elle_VW1972Microbus on Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bnam
Samba Member


Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 2931
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
bnam is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

I just did a repair on a sender for a friend. Was the first one of this type I had tried to repair. I had not yet read this post.

I too discovered the corrosion problem between the tensioner and the cover. But, my solution was different. I cleaned up the under side of the plate. The tensioner was pretty clean, but I cleaned up the upper side (side closer to the cover) a bit more. I had some thick copper wire handy. I cut a small 1/2" length and wedged it between the tensioner and the cover - close to the rivet where the gap between the tensioner and the cover is small. This seems to have done the trick.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Vladiiiii
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2019
Posts: 518
Location: Munich, Germany
Vladiiiii is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

I'd also like to say thank you for showing this. I have repaired my similar 72 Ghia sender this way. I cleaned as much as I could, and I just soldered the spiral and the base together in 2 sturdy points. I also cleand and lightly soldered other connections, and now it's working perfectly Very Happy Shocked

So thanks again, for showing what's to be done Cool
Vlad
_________________
Vlad's 72 Ghia (Once in a Lifetime Restoration topic)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9237746#9237746
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Alois66
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2019
Posts: 22
Location: Germany Bavaria
Alois66 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Dear Ghia friends,

I successfully performed the repair of my fuel sender unit which showed the typical problem of a corroded mass contact of the wire tensioning spring plate with the lid.
However I did it without soldering and in a servicable mode.

1.) Clean the surface of the lid and the wire tensioning spring at the indicated spot with a fibre glas scratch pencil. Easy job 1 min.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


2.) Drill a hole and make a threaded tap.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


3.) From the bottom, screw in a screw with an external toothed washer, which overlaps the tensioner spring.
In this position the spring can't be pushed down to far and it is still flexible enough to tension the wire.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Reassemble the sender and install: Voila it works.

All the best and have fun
Max
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mr Margaret Scratcher
Samba Member


Joined: February 10, 2013
Posts: 245
Location: Cambridge UK
Mr Margaret Scratcher is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

After getting a replacement sender that was reading zero with the float in all positions, I decided to crack open my old sender (Which I actually bought new about a year or so ago) which was just reading higher than empty resistance in all positions. I found the contacts were spread too far apart so I used a small screwdriver to bend them inwards to make a good connection. Tested with multimeter and yes - about 4 ohm full, 90 odd empty.

I was feeling pretty chuffed with myself so you can imagine how gutted I was when I tipped the sender back into the empty position and the momentum of the float snapped the resistance wire at the solder joint Embarassed

I managed to solder it back on (By bending the flexible springy brass bit up) and then managed to snap the other side. Pretty annoyed with myself at this point, but managed to get the other side soldered back on and everything screwed back together and now I finally have a working fuel gauge in my truck for the first time since I got it which is about 20 years! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.