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78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal
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hamid
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

Hi
I just had my 78 engine rebuilt with original fuel injection system. it has been working great and smooth for the last couple of weeks since I got it back. the other day after driving it the night before with no issues, I started the car and it started fine idling great. as I pulled out of driveway it started to stall but did not die. as I let the gas pedal off, it returns to normal idle. as I push the gas more and more the engine stalls as if it is running out of gas. I know the very basic concept of the FI but no way I can figure this out without help. my house is far from the mechanic. I described the situation he said look for vacuum leak. then start checking the electronic of the system.

as I turn the switch on there is a click. as I start it turn on right away. the AFM or sensor seems to be working correctly on visual inspection. I checked for vacuum leak but all hoses are connected. now what is the next step? I read the pamphlet provided on this site but that is a lot of testing. based on the symptoms what could be the most probable so I look for that? thanks a lot
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williamM
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

check the contact below the black cover on the air flow box- It should keep the fuel pump running as the air flow increases.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

Spend a moment to inspect the pins & sockets that connect the wiring harness to the AFM and the ECU box. Make sure one of them is not pushed in and not making a good connection. Not common but it does happen.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

Yeah, what he said. Usually happens when the harness connector is left of the AFM
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

Check the vaccum system for cracks. Especially the S boot.
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hamid
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

Thank you everyone. I will inspect the AFM pins and try to measure the resistance according to the specifications and report back to you. this is the first time I am going to do this. I will also check for cracks in vacuum system.

if there is faulty wiring or pins on AFM or not functioning what are the options? are these part available to purchase as after market at all? I am in southern California. Thanks
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

Just snoop around a little. Take the S boot off and inspect it in the bright california sunshine carefully examining the pleats for any sort of cracks. "Shoe Goo" is an OK temp fix until a new one is found.

I like to remove the plug connections at the AFM and ECU and examine them in a bright light. Clean them up with electrical contact cleaner and make sure the connections are 100%. Needle nose pliers and a pair of tweezers with some sandpaper can help clean up and straighten up connections.

That volt ohm meter may very well pay for itself as you check for continuity and resistance in your wiring harness.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

The pins are available on-line from DigiKey. They have the correct retaining tang to keep them in the connector housings.

This pic shows the FI connector pins.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Close-up of the injector connectors, showing new style release bar.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This pic shows the regular 1/4" terminals and the smaller 0.110" terminals. All terminals shown have a retaining tang, for use with housings.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

All of these terminals need an "F" style crimp tool. The Greenlee / Paladin PA8000 series tool with the 2033 dies is the best (Amazon). A less expensive one is sold by DelCity.net.
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hamid
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

Hello
thanks for your help. I have been reading teh AFC pamphelt and learning about this.
I used the AFC booklet printed from this site and inspected the E.C.U. point by point. all the pins are good. I cleaned with electrical cleaner. I measured all the resistances they are are normal. I checked the temperature sensor it ok.

I checked the connection on the double relay with light meter, they are correct . I checked for vacuum leak I could not fine one. I checked the injectors connectors they are fine.

I turned on the engine and ran it at high RPM it was great for about 10 second and back to the same problem sounding like fuel hungry or running out of gas. back to the idle works great. I turned it off for about 10 minutes, turned it on again and ran at high RPM again great for 10 seconds and the same problem.

i have checked all the connection to fuel pump and solenoid on the starter.

I have not cheeked the fuel pump pressure or the pressure regulator.

I suspect dragging fuel pump. is that a valid suspicion? I will check the current to the fuel pump according to the pamphelt.

any suggestions, recommendation?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

it can be an ignition or fuel problem. There can be problems in the fuel supply including where something in the tank is blocking the flow to the pump. It can be any of many parts of the fuel injection system. It can be the points, dwell, timing or electronic ignition.

There are basic troubleshooting steps but if you don't have the tools and experience it is going to be hard for you to work on it. Were it me, I would start with a fuel pressure test.

Pot where you are in southern California into your avatar or sig line and see if one of our folks like Robbie or Gary are near you.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

HI everyone

I got a fuel pressure gauge and perfrom the test as it was instructed. first with car off and ignition on and the air fuel mixture by passed. the pump is on and the pressure reads 35. I then turn on the engine. starts rightaway even cold. the pressure reads 30( psi). I rev the engine slowly and keep going up it responds good for about 3 seconds, then it stall as before. I let it come back to idle, works great the pressure still at 30. when I rev the engine the pressure goes to 32 and back to 30 oscillating( spelling?)

then i disconnect the vacuum line to pressure regulator. there is no real change may be it goes to 29. I connect the vacuum line back up and turn engine off. the pressure gauge reads around 26 and holds.

so is this pressure pump dragging, fuel pressure regulator or elecrical( double relay( I had tested it and apparently it was functioning)?

thank you

I do not have avator. old school I do not go on face book etc. how do I fing the guys you mentioned in Orange County southern California? thanks
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

You might have a vacuum leak in the brake booster system.

I had a problem with a PVC valve which we broke loose by clamping and unclamping the hose to the S manifold. a few times.

I worked on the grey bus for an hour before Ben came in a said they had drained the gas out of it for the fuel pump install.- problem solved.
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hamid
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

thank you. I will check the lines and report back. thanks
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

Hi
ok it seems that the faulty part is the pressure regulator. after clamping the fuel line going to the regulator( according to the AFC pamphlet) the engine at idle almost died, but as I open the throttle it went back to normal and no sign of gas hungry as I released the clamp on the fuel hose the same problem.
this points to the regulator. I checked the brake booster and all the other hoses. there is no vacuum leak. so after two weeks of testing I found the problem.

now, I have not changed the regulator yet. once I put the new one on I will know if that was the problem for sure. one thing is for sure I know how the FI works and I know all the components and how to test them. thanks to all of you I really appreciate taking time to help me out and thanks to AFC pamphlet on the samba.
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hamid
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

ok I am defeated but not given up yet.

I changed the fuel pressure regulator. no change. changed the fuel pump no change.

on top of that I noticed that at idle ignition light is flickering and light up to full red as I push the gas.

I loosened up the Voltage regulator to check connection etc. all looked good. I decided to disconnect the green wire to see what happens. the RPM at idle improved ( went up slightly). I opened the throttle THE PROBLEM WAS GONE!

i reconnected the green wire and the problem came back. I disconnected the other line, the red and brown and the same thing, the initial problem gone.

I am completely lost now. any ideas? I suspect with my limited knowledge that the pump does not get enough current as the throttle is opened.

it does when the wires( one at time) on voltage regulator is off. thanks
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

hamid wrote:
ok I am defeated but not given up yet.

I changed the fuel pressure regulator. no change. changed the fuel pump no change.

on top of that I noticed that at idle ignition light is flickering and light up to full red as I push the gas.

I loosened up the Voltage regulator to check connection etc. all looked good. I decided to disconnect the green wire to see what happens. the RPM at idle improved ( went up slightly). I opened the throttle THE PROBLEM WAS GONE!

i reconnected the green wire and the problem came back. I disconnected the other line, the red and brown and the same thing, the initial problem gone.

I am completely lost now. any ideas? I suspect with my limited knowledge that the pump does not get enough current as the throttle is opened.

it does when the wires( one at time) on voltage regulator is off. thanks


What I put in bold tells me that the alternator brushes are worn. These L-Jet systems don't work well with a weak charging system. I'm thinking that by disconnecting the regulator that it is boosting power just enough to wake up the FI electronics.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

ok I just check the wires coming out of the harness. there are four wires: red, green brown and black. the black one is just connected to no where! has one of those old tip cover for pins. I could not find the missing wire that connects to this wire. it seems it has been just there since I got the car back from the mechnic after engine rebuild few weeks ago. is this wire supposed to go somehere????
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

ok i just read another thread regarding this. and tested the alternator out put by disconnecting the regulator and jumping the red and green. there should be no alternator out put but it read 15 volts. so it seems that there is wiring problem with alternator. I still do not know what that fourth black wire coming out of the alternator harness goes. any suggestion?

I think I need to tow it to the mechanic who put on the engine and have him fix the problem after spending $ 400 on fuel pump and fuel regulator!

if you have any suggestion as how to drive it 20 miles to get it to the mechanic at this point without going thru towing please let me know. thanks
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

can that black wire be the ground for the alternator?? that mechanic left hanging not grounded???

the battery now read 13. is this battery cooked?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 78 bus FI starts well, idle well, stalls as pushing pedal Reply with quote

hamid wrote:
ok I just check the wires coming out of the harness. there are four wires: red, green brown and black. the black one is just connected to no where! has one of those old tip cover for pins. I could not find the missing wire that connects to this wire. it seems it has been just there since I got the car back from the mechnic after engine rebuild few weeks ago. is this wire supposed to go somehere????


Do you actually mean blue and not black? DON'T go grounding wires. Does the black wire come off the same terminal at the regulator plug as the red wire?
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