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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5390
Location: PNW
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 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:37 pm Post subject: Peloquin guts |
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No, sorry, not pelican guts, Peloquin torque biasing differential guts. I had to take mine apart to clean it out after a R&P grenaded. I found it quite interesting so I thought I would share the glorious guts.
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"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Alaskaberrys 
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2016
Posts: 1001
Location: SE Alaska
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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Dang, that looks impressive! I take it it survived the grenading? Looks pretty intact.
_________________
'91 Westfalia, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2.1L 2wd Auto
'91 T3 Syncro Doka, Escorial Green 1.9L TD AAZ “Gremian” (to provoke, irritate, exasperate, vex...) |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6520
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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Thanks for posting this, Chris.
I have a question... about six weeks ago we got stuck in deep gravel. I had to work the clutch pretty hard in getting out -- though within reason and briefly -- and have smelled asbestos ever since.
Is there anything in a Peloquin that might produce this smell?
I think I overheated the clutch a skosh, as I do have minor chatter that *seems* to be getting better. I suspect I may have slightly warped the pressure plate, though everything seems to work okay save for mild chatter if not at the perfect rev upon pedal release... but I'm asking in being able to eliminate a damaged Peloquin as the offending issue.
It and the clutch and the transaxle rebuild all have less than 10K, so I'm a bit nervous...
Sorry for the stray, please let me know. 
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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No, your smell is purely clutch.
I'll post up some photos of Gary's Syncro version TBD later today. It's slightly different than the 2WD one Christopher shows. Both are very nice quality IMO .. FAR better Quality control than Quaife or some of the other brand TBDs.
For the heck of it, here's an inside pic of our GT Type 1 swingaxle TBD: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1744118.jpg
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aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Gnarlodious
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013
Posts: 2318
Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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Thaks for that, now I know what’s back there.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6520
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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Thanks Paul.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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To compare the 2WD and 4WD Vanagon versions, here's Gary Peloquin's Syncro TBD:
To accommodate the full locking feature, "shorty" gears were required ..
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4751
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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how the heck do designers figure this stuff out? i mean, seriously, my brain just does not envision this stuff from scratch. i'm awed.
-dan |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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CAD programs ..
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4751
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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i guess it is sorta just a SUN planetary gear only with helical cut gears. i can get that but just the ability to design and cut a helical gear alone blows me away. lots of smart people out there.
-dan |
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Turbod16v
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2016
Posts: 156
Location: beaver twp, PA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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I swear by Peloquin products!
I have had a Quaife differential and Peloquin in similar type HP and Geared GTI's i owned at the same time.
The Peloquin always engaged smoother and sooner/faster and provided better traction! The one in my drag car is going on 14 years old..never missed a beat!
plus Gary! he handles anything no questions asked! good guy!
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1971 westy tin top that got a 74 up pop top bolted on |
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bobbyblack
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4348
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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| E1 wrote: |
I think I overheated the clutch a skosh, as I do have minor chatter that *seems* to be getting better. I suspect I may have slightly warped the pressure plate, ... |
Hey E1... the possibility of cracks in the face of your flywheel are significant with the kind of behavior you mentioned, and the smell it made. Sorry, BTDT
Hope you find out that it is either fine, OR that it is cracked and you replace it BEFORE it bites you where the sun don't shine. Engine or trans out to take a look, your choice.
-bobby
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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Since we're on the subject of TBD's, would this style of diff -- either Peloquin or Quaife -- be unhappy running "backward" long-term? Asking because of the reverse-rotation 1.8t /012 5-speed combination.
Though I do notice only Quaife seems to list a TBD for that transaxle... |
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Gnarlodious
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013
Posts: 2318
Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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| tristessa wrote: |
| be unhappy running "backward" long-term? |
It doesn’t run, so it can’t “run backwards”. It is like a differential gear in the sense that it only does anything when both wheels are rotating at different speeds. In all straight-ahead driving the unit is totally passive. In reverse gear it behaves just like in forward.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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tristessa, not only can a TBD be run in reverse, but the internal gears (which have complimentary angles) can be swapped side-to-side.
(.. and as one customer shared, you can stuff one of these diffs down your pants to really impress your honey on Valentine's ;^)
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5390
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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| gears wrote: |
(.. and as one customer shared, you can stuff one of these diffs down your pants to really impress your honey on Valentine's ;^) |
Or...you could just put your diff in a box.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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OddN
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Northern Norway
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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Its a fascinating piece of engineering. And I do not fully understand the principle though.
I believe they both (Peloquin and Quaife) originates from the Torsen (Torque Sensing) diff developed by the Gleason Company in the late fifties?
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1991 VW Multivan syncro 1,9 TD |
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ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| gears wrote: |
(.. and as one customer shared, you can stuff one of these diffs down your pants to really impress your honey on Valentine's ;^) |
Or...you could just put your diff in a box. |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9600
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Peloquin guts |
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| OddN wrote: |
| Its a fascinating piece of engineering. And I do not fully understand the principle though. |
The simplicity makes it difficult to understand. You are probably thinking it's more complicated. Think "simple" and you will understand it.
I don't know if this translates to Norwenglish. If You could see me waving my arms you would understand, I'm certain! 
The cylindrical worms rattle around in holes (bores). If everything is loosey-goosey they allow the L & R axles to "work it out". Any funny-business and the cylinders (lots of them all at the same time !) rub against the sides of the hole they're in - and it locks. And there is the natural friction of worm gears too. And the natural friction of back-driving lots of worm gears, it all adds up to "LOCK".
Hope that helps. 
| OddN wrote: |
| I believe they both (Peloquin and Quaife) originates from the Torsen (Torque Sensing) diff developed by the Gleason Company in the late fifties? |
One difference is - I don't think the Peloquin does much to "divide torque" like a Torsen would. It simply "locks". It's kind of like the Syncro vacuum-operated locker in that way, either "locked" or "not" but automatic.
This is why people "suggest" the Peloquin may not work well on glare ice. But my Peloquin seemed to be fine on ice. But there are lots of different ice conditions out there, flat roads, side slopes, water on ice, dry cold ice on and on and on. I've never seen a valid comparison test - which would be a very difficult test dependent on weather conditions and drivers and tires and eqpt, and on and on and on. So all we have is speculation currently.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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