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My first beach buggy project
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Ctreve
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

About six months ago I was given an old fiberglass beach buggy by my boss because his wife demanded he remove it from their yard. It had sat since about 1992 in more or less the same location. From what I could gather him and his brother in law were partying one night and took it out for a drive and one of them put their foot through the floor (old and rusty I guess). So in the late hours of the night the two of them decided they were going to tear it down and put new floors into it. Well they got the tear down done but never made it past that point.

Fast forward 25 years and all that was left was the frame, engine and trans, and the body. That is where I picked up. The buggy came with a Ford V4 out of a Taunus or a Saab Sonnett. I disassembled it but after sitting with an open intake all that time it was pretty well done.

Here is the buggy as I got it:
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Here is the tear down:
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Here is where I need some help, I have done extensive reading and cruising the forums but am drawing a blank identifying my transaxle.

The buggy is a swing axle model with Gear Box Reductions at the end of the axles (I guess this was out of a bus). However, the spring blades (plates?) are a horrible hack job that was done to raise the buggy up to accommodate for larger tires.

Here is the serial number off of the transaxle:
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If you guys have any input on anything please let me know! I have no idea what type of body I have, I know it isn't a Manx because there is no identification plate where it should be.

Also I should mention that the frame is severely bent in the front end so I have opted to use a new frame I picked up (I will post photos soon). The new frame is an IRS rear end so I will be doing some redesigning. If anyone knows of a way I could modify my transaxle and GBRs to use an IRS system please let me know because that would be extremely cool!

Thanks for the great resource here!
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Don't know about the trans, but that V4 is Cool! I think they were industrial engines back in the day? IIRC there were a couple featured in the old Hot Rod VWs book. Wonder if any parts are still available for it?
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Ctreve
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

I actually tore the V4 down to the bone and have pictures of the process if you want?

The parts are available to a certain degree and I was about to start rebuilding it when I saw that I needed a new valve set and that was something I was unable to source.

My plan is to finish this buggy and then look around and rebuild the V4 for another VW project because I have all of the equipment to mount it to a VW trans.
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Might be worth a 2nd look? Wink

http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-gu...guide.html

A mildly tuned V4 would be pretty slick - and stand out from the crowd!
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Ctreve
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

It's definitely not off of my radar but for now I think I am going to go with a proper VW motor for this build. There is always the next one, this is kind of addicting.

I am going this weekend to pick up a motor for it (1600 dual port from a bus) that a guy has a few hours away in running condition for $800 complete (minus exhaust)
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cdnltded
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Dude i think i finally found a brother to my buggy, the dash looks exactly like mine.
check out my thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=623198&highlight=

and if you are ever thnking about getting ride of those rear rims i may be interested in them. just have to get them here
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Actually the V4 was a Ford industrial engine till SAAB decided to use it.... I think it would be cool and different if you could resurrect the V4 and use it...

Dale
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

For $800 it better run good.when you look at it grab the pulley or the flywheel and push it back and forth in the case. If it goes clunk the case needs a line bore and thrust cut. Love the V4 cool engines

brad
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heywebonya
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Very interesting approach to the GRB mounting: weld van plates on side and pull outward 1.5".

Can you post some more pictures of the swing plates? Looks like they were deformed permanently during the mod.
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Sure you don't want some of this V4 radical-ness?? Very Happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3VmeFo6igQ
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Ctreve
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Trust me guys, I would love the V4 but I can't source valves for any reasonable amount of money.

Here is the pictures of the tear down:

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The issue with the rebuild is that I need:
-Pistons (x4)
-Rings
-Bearings
-Full valve set
-Gaskets
-Carburetor

I was looking at $800 (CAD) for everything until I saw I needed valves. So I may hold off and poke around and eventually rebuild it and throw it back on the buggy or on my next one.

As for the site that was listed (burton power products) it stocks lots of stuff but mostly for the V6 version that was vastly more popular but shared only a hand full of parts.

heywebonya: I will take some pictures tonight of the GRB mounts. The spring plates are the scariest work of hack job engineering I have ever seen and will NOT be making a reappearance on the buggy. I will be plasma cutting new ones that have a 1.5" extension for them so they don't warp like that again. If you have any suggestions please let me know as I have no idea if that is the right way to go about it.

slalombuggy: Trust me I hate spending that much on a motor when it needs an exhaust and I have no idea of the internal condition of it. Unfortunately here in central Canada there seems to be a monopoly on old VW stuff and there is very little to come by unless you go to a guy who rebuilds them (like I have to). In which case, he sets the price.... If anyone has a line on one that is close to me please let me know, I would even cruise down to the states if it was cheap enough or close enough.

cdnltded: That does look exactly like mine! (Minus the damage to mine). Do you have any idea what type it is? All I know about mine is that it originated in Calgary in the 1980's and was metal flake red. I also have a roof for mine! I will get some pictures together tonight and show you (it is all in very rough shape).

I will be posting an update soon with the pictures of my new frame for the buggy (1975 IRS). It has some rust I would like opinions on and I need some advice on how to mount the transaxle as the frame does not have the mounting point welded on.

Thanks so much for all of your responses!
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GS guy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

This guy rebuilds them with HP options - so sure he could supply any parts needed. But yea, it wouldn't be a budget build. I'm guessing some block and head decking will be needed by the looks of things - Yikes!
That old cast iron would probably hot tank back to surprisingly good condition.
http://markashcraft.com/

I even came across a cross-ram Weber intake for those little 4's. Cool
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cdnltded
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Ctreve wrote:


cdnltded: That does look exactly like mine! (Minus the damage to mine). Do you have any idea what type it is? All I know about mine is that it originated in Calgary in the 1980's and was metal flake red. I also have a roof for mine! I will get some pictures together tonight and show you (it is all in very rough shape).


no i have no idea either. i got mine from a friend who got it from a friend who got it supposely from his father in law.
mine has no roof or info either.

still interested in the rear rims thou
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BIGMIKEY
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

GS guy wrote:
Sure you don't want some of this V4 radical-ness?? Very Happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3VmeFo6igQ


I was going to post that exact video. The engine sound!

Mike T
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heywebonya
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Since you are building new swing arms for GRBs, consider a 45 deg lay back. This should give some height and reduce wheel hop.

One of the best designs is to add 1.5" offset to each set.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538730&highlight=rgb++bug


Very interesting build and great price for start of a buggy
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Ctreve
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Hi again guys, quick update with my new IRS rear end frame.

Here are some pictures:

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Also featuring the next 'never do this' addition to the spring plate gallery. I will try and get a more detailed picture of just how bent and broken they are. On of them was only attached to the GBR with 2 bolts while the other had 4.....
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As you can see there is some rust on the front end, I will be using the king pin front end from my old frame as it is in good shape. There is also a lot of rust on the Napoleons Hat (Not sure if that is the technical term). I am going to order a new one and weld it on but what are your guys' thoughts on the rust on the underside of it? My plan is to get a new top to the hat and weld a 1x2" box section under it for support, does that makes sense?

Also; I have some transmission mounting questions. My old frame has a pretty bad looking custom mount on it:
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And as you can see the IRS frame has no mount on it:
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I was planning on purchasing this: https://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-701-173
And welding it onto the frame. However, it looks as though my transmission has mounts that are quite a bit lower than that (judging by my old frame). Is there an alternative mount I should be using or should I be getting one of these as well:
https://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-4749

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am planning on starting the frame work soon and I will need to order those parts if they are required.

Also cdnltded; Sadly I will need to hold onto those rims for my buggy. The GBRs mean that it will be geared down quite a bit and will need the larger tires to achieve highway speed. I can look around with my local VW monopoly when I am there and see if he has any old style rims with large width. Have you looked into bug adapters instead? I have a set on my front end that adapts the old VW pattern to a 5x4.5 (I think).
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

I do not like tellin' ya . . . . I have tossed better into the garbage . . . sorry!!! Crying or Very sad
Ctreve wrote:
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

Ctreve,

This is a case of whether you have time or money....

If you have time:
I would consider cutting off the bottom of tunnel and fabricating a new bottom section with angle iron and new bottom and new pans

If you have $$$:
Buy a new chassis and be happy.

Both are potential approaches, but ensure you have a plan first.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

If it was my engine, I'd have the machine shop redo the guide holes to accept chevy guides and valves or find a comparable valve with similar length valves and redo with available cheaper parts. ..that's what I would do. ..that V4 is way too cool to not redo. ..and while you're at it, have them install bigger valves. ..the chambers look like there is plenty of room for other options.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: My first beach buggy project Reply with quote

i understand on the wheels, and yes i have wide 5 to chevy adapters on all 4 corners.

as for the hat do some homework, the king pin front end has a different tube spacing as a balljoint front end, so you may need to order a king pin front end and stitch it in there.
good luck
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