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Auto-craft valve train....what would you do?
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norris Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
Your welcome!

Picture of the pushrods?


I'll post some tonight.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

sled wrote:
norris wrote:
Pulled the studs...broke the tool....jacked up the pump, but got it out.

Thanks jason

What is a W3700 cam? That's what is stamped on it.




seems like an awfully 'tame' cam for a 2276. I doub't you want to split the case but you could get a cam a bit more suited to a 2276 that would be much more fun to drive, without sacrificing drivability/reliability


You may be right about "tame", but it runs like a dream and it's no slouch...the only time I've driven it hard was at a sanctioned drag strip and it ran 14.3 and 14.4 1/4 miles on 165 tires.
It fun enough to drive around town!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

I would be tempted to get the 1:3 CB rockers. You would gain about .020 of lift at the valve. I wouldn't touch that cam if your able to run 14.3's in the quarter, that's movin! There might be more to that cam combo then we know. Those look like some heavy valve springs, are they duals?

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/CB-Performance-1-3-1-Ratio-Forged-Rocker-Arm-Set-p/cb1575.htm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
I would be tempted to get the 1:3 CB rockers. You would gain about .020 of lift at the valve. I wouldn't touch that cam if your able to run 14.3's in the quarter, that's movin! There might be more to that cam combo then we know. Those look like some heavy valve springs, are they duals?

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/CB-Performance-1-3-1-Ratio-Forged-Rocker-Arm-Set-p/cb1575.htm


I've emailed Schnieder racing cams as suggested to see if the cam happens to be one of theirs...not heard back yet.

The valve springs are duals.

That sounds like the advice I was needing.
So the CB Rockers will be pretty much a bolt-in setup? I've never "setup" rockerarm geometry.
I'll get you pics of my pushrods this evening. They are tapered chrome moly Autocrafts. The ends look great to me.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

I would check coil bind next.

On the other side that still has the rockers on, jack up that side only (leaving other other sides wheel on the ground), pull valve cover, put car in 4th gear, and you can turn the wheel and watch the valves open and close. stop at a point where one of the valve springs is fully compressed, and use a feeler gauge to check the gap between coils.

If you don't have much room left, before coil bind, then adding another .020 of lift with the 1:3's might not be a good idea
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

With a valve fully open, I have at least 1/8" between the coils.
Here are pics of the pushrods....they are exactly 10.50" long.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

I would leave those pushrods in there. Since we dont know the spring pressure and cam specs for sure yet.

As safety procaution with that .020 extra lift of the 1.3's, I woud check piston to valve clearance. Adjust your intake valve .025 PAST zero and ever so slightly turn the engine to make sure you dont have a valve hit the piston. I would use a big wrench on the crank pully bolt so you can feel whats going on best.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

I still don't know the cam specs. I've literally check with every grinder it could be and know one has ever heard of a W3700 marking. Probably a custom grind by someone back in the day. This engine is truly "old school". While all quality parts, most of the internals and case are no longer built. I do know the crank is an Okrasa 82(in sellers description 10 years ago) and the case is ARPM and the valve train is Autocraft, I'll have to open it up to figure out the rest.

I'll follow your suggestion this evening.

Thanks Jeff
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

sled wrote:
norris wrote:
Pulled the studs...broke the tool....jacked up the pump, but got it out.

Thanks jason

What is a W3700 cam? That's what is stamped on it.




seems like an awfully 'tame' cam for a 2276. I doub't you want to split the case but you could get a cam a bit more suited to a 2276 that would be much more fun to drive, without sacrificing drivability/reliability


Just for my knowledge, how can you tell that itís tame from the pic?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

I was wondering this as well. With a .519 lift at the valve it doesn't sound mild to me. Thats .415 at the cam.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

I pressed the needle bearings out and put Oilite bronze bushings in the set I have, that's what was recommended to me awhile back.

Casey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

MConstable wrote:
sled wrote:
norris wrote:
Pulled the studs...broke the tool....jacked up the pump, but got it out.

Thanks jason

What is a W3700 cam? That's what is stamped on it.




seems like an awfully 'tame' cam for a 2276. I doub't you want to split the case but you could get a cam a bit more suited to a 2276 that would be much more fun to drive, without sacrificing drivability/reliability


Just for my knowledge, how can you tell that itís tame from the pic?


I based that off of jpaull's statement of it being close to an engle 100.

I did not see his lift @ valve measurements.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

norris wrote:
I do know the crank is an Okrasa 82(in sellers description 10 years ago) and the case is ARPM and the valve train is Autocraft, I'll have to open it up to figure out the rest.


Huh go figure.. My ARPM case had a 82 Okrasa crank inside. I bought it with a truckload of old school race parts from a guy that raced vw powered midget cars. Lots of autocraft parts in the lot, and a few cams that had oddball stamped #s. I couldn't find specs on a couple of them so I installed in a case and took measurements. Sold them all here on the samba a couple years ago. Mike at autocraft and Dave at kawell racing were a wealth of knowledge and helped me ID some of the weird stuff.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

earthquake wrote:
I pressed the needle bearings out and put Oilite bronze bushings in the set I have, that's what was recommended to me awhile back.

Casey


Where did you get the bushings Casey? No problems with oiling? Were they 1.25s?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

Nobody building using the components you stated were going to build a mild motor. When we used Okrasa or ARPM cases they were fully built to not use a mild cam. We all used Autocraft back then and Okrasa. We could get high quality easily. The one piece ARPM case I could purchase all the way up into the 90's. The serial stamp is on the bottom above your sump. If you ever get it torn down if it is in the 240-270 range it is one of the best years in my opinion, just not a dropped cam in it. I think the engine should be torn down and gone through, just having the OKRASA in it makes it deserve that and I would not be surprised if there is a set of Carrillos in it. Time to preserve this by Knowing what it is. To much valuable stuff I can already see. These engines were not set up to run 50k, tapered Autocraft pushrods in it alone tell you it wasn't meant to stay below 6k rpm. I would not be running this down the strip until you see the condition inside. You loose a rod through that case and you just lost a non replaceable expensive case with only a TF1 capable of replacing it. Better to see the condition after all the years it's been. I'm thinking Lyle Cherry built if it came from Tx.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

The car came from the Sacramento Ca area. It was commissioned by a collector and I was told it won the "best engineered" car at the '05 or '06 Bugarama. It's a "Cal look" car with the best of everything.....yes I'm bragging a bit. I've owned the car 10 years but have not had a chance to mess with it until about a year ago. The car has not even been wet to date. I do drive it every day that the weather is nice and have for the last year.

I was told that the car was built "old school" to the max.

I wil not be taking the engine apart just to see what's inside because I love driving it. As problems have arisen I've repaired them myself as I'd never allow anyone else to touch it......that's where you guys have been such a huge help...and it's appreciated!

Now, if I can get this valve train problem fixed, I'll be back on the road!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

You have the right idea, get it back running again. Its easy to fall into the neverending "I might as well do this" and replace that.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
I would leave those pushrods in there. Since we dont know the spring pressure and cam specs for sure yet.

As safety procaution with that .020 extra lift of the 1.3's, I woud check piston to valve clearance. Adjust your intake valve .025 PAST zero and ever so slightly turn the engine to make sure you dont have a valve hit the piston. I would use a big wrench on the crank pully bolt so you can feel whats going on best.


Jeff, just checked and the valve has clearance at .025 past zero.
I'm thinking that I may stay with 1.25s anyway. It runs great and whoever built it know a whole lot more than I do. I really don't need any more power and it has crazy low end torque like it is.

I think your suggestion of the forged CBs might be my best bet.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

Can you tell I'm proud of my 54 Oval. This is a pic of when I bought it. It now has polished Vintage 190s instead of the Mangels.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-craft valve train....what would you do? Reply with quote

I really like this wheel combo!



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