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MConstable
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004
Posts: 1822
Location: Saint Charles IL
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 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: Re: performance motor for 67 square back? |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| bay area square wrote: |
| Does one exist? I want to push as much hp out of one as possible. Need ideas please? |
How much money do you have to spend?
For a big air cooled engine, it's cheaper to go with a type 4 engine.
If going water cooled doesn't bother you, a Subaru swap might be in order. |
A type IV build is cheaper?? |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: Re: performance motor for 67 square back? |
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| MConstable wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| bay area square wrote: |
| Does one exist? I want to push as much hp out of one as possible. Need ideas please? |
How much money do you have to spend?
For a big air cooled engine, it's cheaper to go with a type 4 engine.
If going water cooled doesn't bother you, a Subaru swap might be in order. |
A type IV build is cheaper?? |
For a big air cooled engine yes.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: Re: performance motor for 67 square back? |
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| dayunbao wrote: |
| There are also safety concerns. For example, these old VWs are, quite frankly, death traps. They lack all of the modern structural safety measures, like crumple zones. I mean, the cars are made of really thin metal, the gas tank is in the front of the car... Getting into an accident at the speeds a 200+ hp engine can produce seems way more dangerous in an old VW than a modern car. Am I the only one who has had these questions when thinking about getting a beefier engine in their air-cooled VW? |
Well, IF you're worried about driving a "death trap", you should get out of VW ownership. While VW was a head of it's time (they do have crumple zones), you're still dealing with a 40+ year old car. Have you seen the you tube video of the modern Malibu crashing into the 59 Impala? That's 1 hell of a wake up call, especially when you see the Impala fold up and get destroyed, while you'd survive without a scratch in the Malibu.
If you're going to add more power, you need to add brakes and good tires to compliment the added power. Do you really need a big high horse power engine? No. But they are more fun.
That said, I've driven nearly across the USA in my 65 Notch, and my old 64 T-34 Ghia. The T-34 was a scarier trip, mostly because it sat so low that it wasn't visible. The Notch on the other hand was very visible, and I had no issues with it. Yes, I run just a little 1600 in it, and cruise on the freeway at about 70-75 (speed limit), but when I'm driving it, I'm on VW time. When I get there, I get there. I'm not in any kind of hurry. Plus, when you're driving one, your thinking has to change. You drive them like you're on a motorcycle. Always looking around for idiots, and paying attention to what's going on. I call it preventative driving. I drive my VW a lot different than I drive my Honda Accord or my full size Chevy pick up truck. You just have to. Period.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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dayunbao
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2017
Posts: 86
Location: CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: performance motor for 67 square back? |
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| Quote: |
Well, IF you're worried about driving a "death trap", you should get out of VW ownership. While VW was a head of it's time (they do have crumple zones), you're still dealing with a 40+ year old car. Have you seen the you tube video of the modern Malibu crashing into the 59 Impala? That's 1 hell of a wake up call, especially when you see the Impala fold up and get destroyed, while you'd survive without a scratch in the Malibu.
If you're going to add more power, you need to add brakes and good tires to compliment the added power. Do you really need a big high horse power engine? No. But they are more fun.
That said, I've driven nearly across the USA in my 65 Notch, and my old 64 T-34 Ghia. The T-34 was a scarier trip, mostly because it sat so low that it wasn't visible. The Notch on the other hand was very visible, and I had no issues with it. Yes, I run just a little 1600 in it, and cruise on the freeway at about 70-75 (speed limit), but when I'm driving it, I'm on VW time. When I get there, I get there. I'm not in any kind of hurry. Plus, when you're driving one, your thinking has to change. You drive them like you're on a motorcycle. Always looking around for idiots, and paying attention to what's going on. I call it preventative driving. I drive my VW a lot different than I drive my Honda Accord or my full size Chevy pick up truck. You just have to. Period. |
I just watched that video. Terrifying. I think I've decided not to put a more powerful engine in my Fastback, ha-ha. I'll wait a bit and get a more powerful modern car. Honestly, I really only use my Fastback to put around town, and I enjoy driving it that way. If possible, I never take it on the freeway. Regardless of how many horsepower the engines puts out, I realize that there's a certain risk associated with driving an old car. I'm willing to accept the risk that comes with putting around town, though. Of course, there's nothing stopping some a**hole in an SUV or giant pickup from plowing into me and tearing my car in two while I'm putting around town, lol.
A friend of mine who has a 2.0 liter Type 4 engine in his bus complains about how expensive it is to maintain because he has to compete with air-cooled Porsche people for parts. I haven't looked into it myself, but if that's true, that's something anyone thinking about putting a Type 4 engine in their car should consider. |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13280
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: performance motor for 67 square back? |
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extra sports car means extra garage space, another car on insurance, another set of tires, more car washes, oil changes, wear and tare etc. Ok for some, not ok for most people
Caymans are ok, but get ready for the "not a real Porsche" comments.
car accidents at 50mph are one thing, that doesnt mean they can handle high speed accidents either
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7544
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: performance motor for 67 square back? |
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One thing people frequently misunderstand about hot-rodding an air-cooled VW motor is the cooling.
You have to make a certain amount of heat to make a certain amount of power;
You burn a given amount of fuel, it makes a corresponding amount of heat.
The fins and fan, at a specific RPM, are able to carry X amount of heat away..
When you start making the motor flow better, and burn more fuel, it makes more heat.
The fan is only able to carry away so much of this heat from stock beetle heads.
If you hop up your beetle motor, and then go push it on the highway for any amount of time,
it will stop being able to cool itself.
"Freeway flyer" is folly; the fan turns slower that way.
Oil coolers don't cool heads.
The only way to get more cooling is more fins.
The type 4 accomplishes this.
If there were any other way to increase cooling on a beetle motor, the factory would have been privy to it.
So,
Basically,
you can make your airooled type-1-based motor accelerate quickly,
And do very well for short bursts,
But,
Short of a type 4 or water-cooled motor,
There's no way to build it to stay cool at high freeway speeds.
The cooling system is simply incapable of disposing of the heat..
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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MConstable
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004
Posts: 1822
Location: Saint Charles IL
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: performance motor for 67 square back? |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| MConstable wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| bay area square wrote: |
| Does one exist? I want to push as much hp out of one as possible. Need ideas please? |
How much money do you have to spend?
For a big air cooled engine, it's cheaper to go with a type 4 engine.
If going water cooled doesn't bother you, a Subaru swap might be in order. |
A type IV build is cheaper?? |
For a big air cooled engine yes. |
Not remotely |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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BSQUARE
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2004
Posts: 1876
Location: Feeling, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: performance motor for 67 square back? |
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| Max Welton wrote: |
Kinda interesting seeing the air tubes expand when the revs go up.
Max |
It looks like it's flexing its muscles.
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1988 Ford Festiva L
1965 Honda 50 "Super Cub"
2016 Miami Sun Trike |
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GELS
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2014
Posts: 28
Location: NEW ZEALAND
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: performance motor for 67 square back? |
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| Yeh I noticed the 'flexi' hoses straight away too! I have since fitted the orange reinforced hoses now and it's much better. |
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