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blues412002 Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 79 Location: Parkville, MO
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:11 am Post subject: hard start and loss of power |
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I've read through many posts and just wanted some fresh input on my problem- back at first of January, I attempted to start my '74 Westy with a Raby camper special motor (4 years old). The air temp was abut 12 degrees (F). It had not been started since mid-October. Starting fluid was required to get her to light, but it was a real hard start, a lot of banging and such for a normally super smooth motor. Gave up.
Came back a month later, same thing although the air temp was now closer to 50 degrees. Started up, coughing and spitting. Got it warmed up, took it out on the road, coulsn't get over 50 mph, severe loss of power.
Dual Weber carbs, no choke. What could I have knocked loose or otherwise messed up with the extreme cold, hard start? _________________ Tim Osburn
1956 Euro ragtop beetle (Ebon)
1974 Westy hardtop camper (Tullio)
2017 Tiguan (Sport II)
http://ralphspoilsportmotors.com |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:14 am Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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From sitting - most likely gummed up carbs from evaporated gas. _________________ .ssS! |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:26 am Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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Abscate wrote: |
From sitting - most likely gummed up carbs from evaporated gas. |
X2. I run my bus at least weekly, usually twice a week. Carbs don't like to sit. Nor do these old engines, they just need to move. _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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Points?, or electronic ignition? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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old fuel combined with low temps. Do these carbs have chokes? If so are they manual or automatic? _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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blues412002 Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 79 Location: Parkville, MO
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:36 am Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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Electronic ignition. No chokes on the carbs. I'll clean 'em out and see what happens...thanks! _________________ Tim Osburn
1956 Euro ragtop beetle (Ebon)
1974 Westy hardtop camper (Tullio)
2017 Tiguan (Sport II)
http://ralphspoilsportmotors.com |
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blues412002 Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 79 Location: Parkville, MO
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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So, will spaying the carbs with Gumout do the trick or am I now going to have to rebuild the carbs?
Also, before winter, I made sure the tank was full and had some gas conditioner in it. Thought that would do the trick, but maybe not. _________________ Tim Osburn
1956 Euro ragtop beetle (Ebon)
1974 Westy hardtop camper (Tullio)
2017 Tiguan (Sport II)
http://ralphspoilsportmotors.com |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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without chokes you won't find it easy to start in cold weather regardless what you do.
Chokes were added to make it possible to start a car in cold weather. That is true even when it is 40F or 50F outside. Get down to the teens and Id'd be surprised the car would even run until it is warmed up. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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scubaseas Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013 Posts: 442 Location: ME & Texas, in a Bus or on a boat somewhere
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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If you pull out a spark plug you will find it all covered in soot. If you start a motor in cold weather be ready to drive it a while to heat up and help blow the carbon off the plugs. If you move the Bus a few times in your driveway or start it and shut it down shortly there after it will eventually not start from the plugs being fouled with carbon. The spark will jump down the insulator, not across the tip as the carbon allows conduction of current. You will not be evaporating gas at a fast rate when it's 12*F outside. I doubt the carbs or fuel are the issue.
Without chokes you need to pump the gas a few times and it'll spit and pop until it warms up some. _________________ Al
08/1970 T2a Westphalia owned since 1980
ASE Master certification. 50 years pushing a wrench
Retired |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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If the engine will run I would try a quality Carb/FI cleaner dumped into the tank and see if that will clean things up.
Adding some upper cylinder wall lube like MMO, 2-cycle oil, or synthetic motor oil to you tank will help to keep the valves from hanging up in their guides.
If your engine was banging after you started it on ether, I would be worried that you may have damaged something. |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3777 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: hard start and loss of power |
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Fairly typical behavior of Weber IDF's in cool/cold weather. Combine those carbs with a Raby cam and it's a bit more pronounced until you get some heat up the manifold/s. These are open air carbs and if left to sit for a length of time the fuel bowls will dry up. _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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