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h00drat
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2016
Posts: 881
Location: Hood River
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 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| tristessa wrote: |
| I've never had a problem with a soldered splice connection in any of my cars. Crimped connections on the other hand -- even factory ones -- have left me stranded or at least head-scratching in the past. |
Man. That's totally how I feel. I was surprised when I heard the "never solder wiring on a vehicle" argument.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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I soldered, shrink wrapped, taped, repaired wires in my daily driver ABA swap. Though its a fugly affair to look at, the harness is well supported. No issues due to soldered joints that I know of.
If one uses those shrink wrap type butt splice connectors and the loom is taped and covered, I'd think that connection would last a very very long time. My guess is that the cheaper NON shrink type connectors are what could fail early. (poor support at wire in/out, if wire not taped - poorly supported, vibration etc would cause it fail "early" I'd guess)
In my limited experience, ..... on my current swap, connecting a #8 wire to #12 + #10 was better done with solder. (that said, if a pair of wires don't fit a given butt connector, one might potentially be exceeding wire ampicity?? Are there butt joins that accept a larger and smaller wire gauge?) And, I've again soldered repaired wires in the harness. Partly out of ignorance maybe but partly because I don't want the added width. Even if joins are staggered, the whole thing becomes a little bulkier. But thats kind of hair splitting on my part and likely of no real consequence.
I'd guess that cold solder joints are at least one factor in why soldered joints get blamed for "cracking". Figure that if its windy, cold, work isn't supported properly, a cold joint could easily happen and be overlooked.
Again, I'm offering opinions based upon limited experience but if the harness is properly supported, solder job is good, shrink wrapped etc., why would the joint fail?
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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h00drat
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Joined: May 31, 2016
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Location: Hood River
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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That is a good point re: cheap crimp style connectors vs. the nicer heat shrink style. I have yet to use the nicer heat shrink style, but I'm sure they are far superior to the cheap FLAPS connectors.
At any rate, I am still leaning towards solder for a few reason.
1. I totally agree that it helps keep the harness clean and less bulky.
2. I have yet to have a solder fail on a vehicle or motorcycle that I have used them on, and I've had quite a few.
Once wrapped in tape as a harness, the solders won't be bending as individual wires, which is where I could see them or any other connector for that matter really failing.
I am actually looking forward to the wiring. It's one of the things about a motorcycle build that I enjoyed the most. Hopefully I feel the same way about this one when I'm done 
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Since you're on wiring harness stuff now, just an idea. The ABA coil fits quite nicely under the WBX relay box, the lead appears to be long enough to dizzy. I'm assuming that since the WBX coil was in the same spot (albeit a little lower) RF from the coil won't affect the relays. The ABA coil bolts aren't long enough but i assume one could buy those.
I'm sure someone else has already thought of this but while it was on my mind...
Neil.
bolt ends visible
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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h00drat
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Location: Hood River
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Nice. Thanks for the tip! Just trying to wrap my head around wiring. As soon as I feel like the coolant lines are in a good place, I think wiring is the next logical step.
Still need to wrap up a few other things...
1. I got the 45 degree thermostat housing. Hoping it conflicts less with the PS pump. Will try it tonight.
2. One of the wiring connectors on my alternator looks a little jacked up. Hoping I can take it to my FLAPS and have it tested. Don't really want to buy a replacement, but I might have to.
3. Once I get the PS pump and alternator on I need to get belts and get that bit situated.
Exhaust & Air Intake - I have all of the parts to building it once the motor is in.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Re: coil location. I doubt coil heat is a factor but with it that close to the bracket, I do wonder about coil heat reflected back on coil.
FWIW, I'm nearly certain the Motronic ECU tach signal won't work with the Vanagon tach. Looking again at ABA OBD1 diagrams (likely same for OBD2), I don't see a 1 wire in harness. This is how I connected the 1 signal on my 15º swap. Kludgy but so far so good:
https://sites.google.com/site/tubaneil2/addtachwire
This time, I might run that wire through a notch in the plastic lid.
Other swaps like the 1.8T might have clues as to better solutions for a tach 1 signal.
re: B+ cable. One could crimp/solder connections but it might be better to get a pro to crimp the connections. I've used the hammer blow crimp tool but for smaller terminals like #8 or #6 it may not be optimal. The marine shop you wrote of may have a proper tool to do battery wire crimps. The might let you use it?
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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h00drat
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| h00drat wrote: |
| Just running a single wire from the negative coil terminal? |
I should have made this clearer though this info is "buried"  in that page I linked to.....
On my 1981 15º ABA swap van, the wire from coil "1" (shown in images) connects to the oil pressure L board I'd installed. i.e. there's no tach in that van; I just needed a "tach" signal to let the board know when engine is at 2000+ RPM's (high pressure switch requirement)
Although untested, on this current 1988 50º ABA swap, the plan is to run one wire from ABA coil "1" to WBX tach wire. So yes. One wire from 1 of coil.
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h00drat
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:29 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Are the two outlets on the plastic crack pipes suppose to be the same size? One is 5/8”, the other is clearly bigger making it difficult to run the 5/8 line from the front of the head, and the coolant bottle.
Sorry for the quick mobile post. Just trying to figure this one out.
Edit: looking at the coolant hose thread again, it looks like I need to just stop being a sissy and force the 5/8 line on there. The examples look like the hose is stretched a bit to fit the bigger one.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| h00drat wrote: |
Edit: .... The examples look like the hose is stretched a bit to fit the bigger one.
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FWIW, the black hose I show at the larger fitting is 3/4" marine exhaust/coolant hose. Its a very tight fit mostly because that type of hose wall is quite stiff compared to standard heater hose but partly because it's an SAE size hose on a metric nipple.
Neil.
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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82westyrabbit
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Joined: March 02, 2015
Posts: 969
Location: Ma
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| Hi. On the Tiico motronic fuel injection the tac wire just plugs into the negative side of the coil so that should work. I ran my coil above the intake manifold for over 100000 miles with no over heat problems. My coil is now getting relocated to the right side firewall instead of cutting into the Tiico wiring harness to leve it where it is. I can’t help with the hoses as mine are the stock Tiico stuff witch is all different. Good luck |
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h00drat
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Location: Hood River
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:54 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
FWIW, the black hose I show at the larger fitting is 3/4" marine exhaust/coolant hose. Its a very tight fit mostly because that type of hose wall is quite stiff compared to standard heater hose but partly because it's an SAE size hose on a metric nipple.
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Yeah...so the larger fitting is definitely 3/4", and there is zero chance I am getting 5/8" hose on there.
So the way I see it, I have two options...
1. Run 3/4" hose instead of 5/8" hose. Will clamps make it work on the smaller 5/8" fittings? (front of head and bottom of coolant bottle)
2. Get a 3/4" - 5/8" adapter and use a short piece of 3/4" hose off of the larger fittings, and 5/8" hose to the smaller fittings.
Thoughts?
Front of head is hosed up.
What size is the small line that runs to the top of the coolant bottle? 3/8"? I have some 1/4" line and that is definitely too small.
Picked up a used coolant bottle that appears to be in quite good shape.
Also started grinding the power steering pump and I am pretty close to it clearing the 90 degree tstat housing. The 45 was even worse off. Just have to find a coolant hose to route around the engine carrier arm.
It looks like there might be a threaded fitting missing from the PS pump. Something I can source locally?
I think this orientation will work for the two crack pipes. I can run hose from the right crack pip to the coolant pump without it kinking, or requiring a 90 degree bend.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| h00drat wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
FWIW, the black hose I show at the larger fitting is 3/4" marine exhaust/coolant hose. Its a very tight fit mostly because that type of hose wall is quite stiff compared to standard heater hose but partly because it's an SAE size hose on a metric nipple.
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Yeah...so the larger fitting is definitely 3/4", and there is zero chance I am getting 5/8" hose on there.
So the way I see it, I have two options...
1. Run 3/4" hose instead of 5/8" hose. Will clamps make it work on the smaller 5/8" fittings? (front of head and bottom of coolant bottle)
2. Get a 3/4" - 5/8" adapter and use a short piece of 3/4" hose off of the larger fittings, and 5/8" hose to the smaller fittings.
Thoughts? |
I'd have to look at the Cabrio hose page again but why do you want to fit a smaller hose to the 3/4" nipple? IMO, no. A clamp won't make a 3/4" hose reliably seal to a 5/8" nipple.
h00drat wrote:
Also started grinding the power steering pump and I am pretty close to it clearing the 90 degree tstat housing. The 45 was even worse off. Just have to find a coolant hose to route around the engine carrier arm.
Neil wrote:
I'd be careful with removing too much material there. This is just a gut guess as I'm no engineer or anything, but the PS pump brackets are made pretty strong for good reason. i.e. isn't there also a very stout plate bracket between pump and block?
Hoodrat wrote:
It looks like there might be a threaded fitting missing from the PS pump. Something I can source locally?
Neil wrote:
That threaded hole accepts the Vanagon PS hose banjo fitting + bolt. IIRC, there's two copper washers on that fitting; one under bolt head, one between banjo and pump. Bentley manual might show that? People re use those. I'm thinking I'll heat mine red to soften the metal to help them seal when torqued down. Or, they might be available in a similar SAE size at a FLAPS?
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h00drat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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I feel like a crazy person. I must not be explaining myself well, or I'm the only person with this problem.
The 5/8" hose goes from the small outlet of the crack pipe on the front of the head (it fits this one perfectly), to the large outlet of the crack pipe by the oil cooler (this one it will not fit on. 3/4" outelt).
The other 5/8" hose goes from the large outlet of the right hand crack pipe by the oil cooler (this one is a 3/4" outlet, it does not fit), to the outlet on the bottom of the coolant bottle (this one it does fit on).
The smaller crack pipe outlets which run from the water pump to the oil cooler fit just fine. They are 5/8" on both ends (crack pipe and oil cooler).
This is an example of the adapter I think I need: https://www.autozone.com/fittings-and-hose-line-co...102831_0_0
5/8" from front of head (smaller crack pipe outlet) and the bottom of the coolant bottle.
3/4" from the two crack pipes leading into the oil cooler and the water pump.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| h00drat wrote: |
I feel like a crazy person. I must not be explaining myself well, or I'm the only person with this problem.
The 5/8" hose goes from the small outlet of the crack pipe on the front of the head (it fits this one perfectly), to the large outlet of the crack pipe by the oil cooler (this one it will not fit on. 3/4" outelt).
The other 5/8" hose goes from the large outlet of the right hand crack pipe by the oil cooler (this one is a 3/4" outlet, it does not fit), to the outlet on the bottom of the coolant bottle (this one it does fit on).
The smaller crack pipe outlets which run from the water pump to the oil cooler fit just fine. They are 5/8" on both ends (crack pipe and oil cooler).
This is an example of the adapter I think I need: https://www.autozone.com/fittings-and-hose-line-co...102831_0_0
5/8" from front of head (smaller crack pipe outlet) and the bottom of the coolant bottle.
3/4" from the two crack pipes leading into the oil cooler and the water pump. |
No, not crazy. And believe me; it took me a while to understand the coolant flow. And I may be misinterpreting what you're saying. Sorry if I'm repeating what you just wrote but.....
Looking at an image in the Cabrio coolant hose thread, it seems to me that the hose feeding into the larger upper nipple on LH crack pipe should be shown as 3/4". To my eye, that Cabrio hose looks like it has a molded shape; it's 5/8" ID until ID enlarges to mate with the crack pipe. If you're using marine hose in place of that, this could be part of the confusion.
I think the "Cabrio" crack pipe at flange at head goes as follows:
5/8" nipple connects to 5/8" hose feeding heater core
3/4" nipple connects to 3/4" hose feeding into LH crack pipe at pump
This is how I see it. Regardless of parts used....
Coolant flow out from head: largest hose to Vanagon long pipe. 5/8" hose to heater core. 3/4" hose in to LH crack pipe at water pump. (which also supplies coolant in to oil cooler). Smallest hose to coolant bottle (via T or whatever)
Coolant flow into engine: 5/8" hose from heater core and 5/8" hose from coolant bottle connect via OE ABA pipe (or ?) and feed in to RH crack pipe 3/4" inlet at water pump. Coolant from long pipe flows into water pump thermostat housing.
Oil cooler: LH crack pipe pushes coolant through 5/8" nipple and hose into cooler, 5/8" hose from cooler pushes coolant into 5/8" nipple on RH crack pipe
Not to confuse matters but the Bentley diagram shows how it all works.
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h00drat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
I think the "Cabrio" crack pipe at flange at head goes as follows:
5/8" nipple connects to 5/8" hose feeding heater core
3/4" nipple connects to 3/4" hose feeding into LH crack pipe at pump
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Okay. This I can get behind. My interpretation of the coolant thread was that the smaller 5/8" outlet at the head went to the oil cooler, and the larger 3/4" went forward to the heater core. If I can run 3/4" from there back to the oil cooler, and 5/8" to the heater core, this will solve 50% of my problem.
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Coolant flow into engine: 5/8" hose from heater core and 5/8" hose from coolant bottle connect via OE ABA pipe (or ?) and feed in to RH crack pipe 3/4" inlet at water pump. Coolant from long pipe flows into water pump thermostat housing.
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Bold/Italic is where I'm having issue. Right hand crack pipe runs 5/8" host into the oil cooler. Then it has a 3/4" opening which needs to run to the coolant bottle. However the coolant bottle is a 5/8" opening.
The 3/4" solution from the head to the left hand crack pipe will work. Although I think it is contradictory to the cabrio coolant thread. The coolant bottle, unless some bottles have a 3/4" outlet is still an issue.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| h00drat wrote: |
Okay. This I can get behind. My interpretation of the coolant thread was that the smaller 5/8" outlet at the head went to the oil cooler, and the larger 3/4" went forward to the heater core. If I can run 3/4" from there back to the oil cooler, and 5/8" to the heater core, this will solve 50% of my problem.
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Coolant flow into engine: 5/8" hose from heater core and 5/8" hose from coolant bottle connect via OE ABA pipe (or ?) and feed in to RH crack pipe 3/4" inlet at water pump. Coolant from long pipe flows into water pump thermostat housing.
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Bold/Italic is where I'm having issue. Right hand crack pipe runs 5/8" host into the oil cooler. Then it has a 3/4" opening which needs to run to the coolant bottle. However the coolant bottle is a 5/8" opening.
The 3/4" solution from the head to the left hand crack pipe will work. Although I think it is contradictory to the cabrio coolant thread. The coolant bottle, unless some bottles have a 3/4" outlet is still an issue. |
I can't really speak exactly to the Cabrio solution; I'm going by the coolant diagram shown in Bentley and my experience using that diagram to install the cooling hoses on my first swap (has lots of miles on it). However. Except for some variations, in terms of flow to/from each part, I bet the Cabrio solution follows that diagram. With that in mind....
Yes. From crack pipe connected to flange on head, you use 5/8" hose forward to heater core and 3/4" back to LH crack pipe.
The "OE ABA pipe" I refer to was cut from the longish black metal coolant manifold pipe used on an automatic transmission Jetta. That manifold is a fairly long black metal pipe with multiple openings. In part, it merges coolant from the heater core and coolant bottle then sends it out a 3/4" opening to the coolant pump. Looking at my images again, I'd have to go measure the pipe to confirm dimension of each end but IIRC, its a 5/8" x 5/8" x 3/4" T. This pic shows my daily driver 15º swap with that OE ABA pipe. Just above the flex hose, you can barely see end of black hose from the coolant bottle joining that pipe. The red hose is 5/8" hose from heater core.
This old web page of mine shows images of that "OE ABA pipe" before installation. The notes are currently poorly edited but basically, I cut the part off then welded a bead on each end. In hindsight I should've added a coat of paint. Clicking on each image enlarges it.
https://sites.google.com/site/tubaneil2/shortenedcoolantpipe
On the swap I'm currently working on, I made the equivalent of that OE ABA pipe out of copper. The 1/2" x 1/2" x 3/4 reducer T I used was found at a Home Depot type store. It's not uncommon.
I soldered in two 1/2" pipe stubs (these are about 5/8" OD) then to provide a 3/4" OD connection, I ended up reducing the OD of a brass 1/2 NPT pipe to fit the 3/4" pipe and 3/4" marine hose to crack pipe. To provide a bead at each end, I soldered on #14 solid wire and possibly filed each bead to fit the hose. I pressure tested the assembled part before installing. Below shows the assembled part in my swap but not a great pic.
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h00drat
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Alright, I think I am at a point where I am happy with this. From left to right, this is where I ended up...
1. 3/4" hose from head to LH crack pipe
2. 5/8" hose forward for heater
3. Capped extra line
4. 1 1/4" hose forward
5. 3/8" line from #4 hose to top of coolant bottle & to metal outlet on head
6. 3/4" hose, adapter, 5/8" hose from RH crack pipe to coolant bottle
Good times.
I got the PS pump bracket ground to the point that I think it will work. I am, however, missing the tension adjustment bracket. I'll have to see if I can find one. And a 45 degree 1 1/4" adapter to make it over the diesel carrier arm.
Neil, I think you said this hose needs to convert to 1 1/2" where it connects to the factory Vanagon line. So I'll have to figure that out.
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<<Tyler>>
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tristessa
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| h00drat wrote: |
| Neil, I think you said this hose needs to convert to 1 1/2" where it connects to the factory Vanagon line. So I'll have to figure that out. |
For those connections, I've used a piece of 1.5" hose about 4-5" long cut from a molded radiator hose, a Gates 26390 1.25"->1.5" hose adapter bushing, and a piece of 1.25"OD brass lavatory drain tubing with the chrome ground off. Been working fine for years. |
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h00drat
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| tristessa wrote: |
For those connections, I've used a piece of 1.5" hose about 4-5" long cut from a molded radiator hose, a Gates 26390 1.25"->1.5" hose adapter bushing, and a piece of 1.25"OD brass lavatory drain tubing with the chrome ground off. Been working fine for years. |
I need a 45 degree adapter to get the 1.25" hose around the diesel carrier arms. So, my thinking is that I can get a metal 1.25" 45 degree adapter, then connect the 1.5" hose with busing directly to the 45, back to the Vanagon hose.
Then go 1.5" hose with bushing to the plastic outlet on the front of the head.
Parts needed...
1. 45 degree adapter.
2. x2 1.5 to 1.25 bushings
3. about 3 feet of 1.5" hose
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<<Tyler>>
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