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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:07 pm Post subject: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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Yeah - I know this is a stupid question...and I have installed tons of heads. Well, not tons, but a few....But we are counting on just the flat washers and nuts to keep oil from leaking around the head studs. Getting ready to put an engine back together and am seeing evidence of leakage in this area. Does anybody use anything? Was pondering aviation sealer on the backside of the washers..... _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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use a non-hardening sealant. RTV or Curil works well here. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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I just put them on dry and no leaks, but I must be lucky. IF you use RTV make sure you don't get it in the threads or you'll be pulling the studs out to clean them next time around. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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Ditto... Mostly non hardening (aircraft) sealer...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3466 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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I used no sealer, and they leaked.
Pulled the nuts/washers, cleaned all with brake cleaner and used permatex high tack sealent in the brush top can. All good now. _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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I always seal underneath the washers... |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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Permatex Ultra Black works good too.
Available at your local FLAPS.
Put a bead on the bottom of the washer and install. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7393
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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Loctite 574 on the backside of the washers-.just a little will do |
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CLKWRK Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2001 Posts: 566 Location: Toronto
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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I would not use RTV. I do use otay liquid Teflon sealer in the tube on both sides of the washer and nut and threads. no leeks.no issues cleaning up no worries about it in the oil or the screen.Just apply, torque to specs and wipe off any xsess. |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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Awesome - thanks.....I was figuring Aviation or possibly a small bead of my Permatex right stuff....Was surprised that there is nothing the the manuals about this. You folks rock! _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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Curil K-2, not Curil-T |
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RWK Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009 Posts: 1349 Location: S.W. MI
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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Aviation form-a-gasket, the dark stuff, all they had for a long time, before silicone was all the rage, used/worked on everything on VWs _________________ 73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12468
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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In fact it goes back to the early 1900s and Barney Oldfield as spokesman. A product that’s been around over 100 years, I’ve used it since the 1970s. |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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Since we are discussing sealers.....Cylinders to case....I have had great luck with thin bead of Permatex right stuff at the cylinder base. BUT I have this engine that is using 2 cylinder shims per cylinder....Very concerned that Right stuff is gonna set up too fast dealing with the shims.... Wanting to get this thing back together today...Let me know. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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I agree on a good quality, high temp...OIL RESISTANT RTV.
So many times I have advocated using RTV in many engine applications....by applying micro-thin, letting it cure and then clamping the parts (intakes, case line etc.). In effect....making a precision gasket with it.
Under head stud washers is one of the places you do NOT want to apply it that way. The reason is that having an actual HARDENED elastic material under the forged washers.....will allow them to load up and lock under initial torque....but over a short period of time the RTV will crush down and release torque.
The proper way with forged head stud washers is to apply thin and wet. In this way the washer will squeeze out any RTV not required to fill low spots and gaps. In most areas the washer will properly load up metal to metal.
Once the nut is torqued....scrupulously wipe up all excess RTV. Ray |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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as I recall locktight rtv used to state do not use on head bolts&threads....ive nevere been able to wipe it up it seems to leave a thin film that comes off lator. it is however great for cylinder shim sealer...if used sparingly...very sparingly. I use the OTAYliquid Teflon/pipesealer with Teflon, as that's what arp told me to use on any head bolts/studs that are wet or have toe ability to leek. that is what they send but in a arp tube. |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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andk5591 wrote: |
Since we are discussing sealers.....Cylinders to case....I have had great luck with thin bead of Permatex right stuff at the cylinder base. BUT I have this engine that is using 2 cylinder shims per cylinder....Very concerned that Right stuff is gonna set up too fast dealing with the shims.... Wanting to get this thing back together today...Let me know. |
I use Right Stuff with 2 shims. There is enough time to work without it bring a problem. You dont have to rush. But don't doddle around either. I usually get the barrels on and torque down the heads with no tubes, let it aet overnight and the go the next day and finish the top end
brad |
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Lo Cash John Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2004 Posts: 2246 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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Checkout Yamabond 4. I've used it on VW & Subaru builds and It's really good stuff. It should be available at any Yamaha dealership. _________________ www.LoCashRacing.org
More brains than bucks...Believe it or not!!
If you actually drive your VW, you need www.AirMapp.com
My boss told me I need to work on my mutli-tasking. So now when I use the bathroom at work I surf The Samba on my iPhone. |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Sealing head studs inside the heads??? |
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slalombuggy wrote: |
andk5591 wrote: |
Since we are discussing sealers.....Cylinders to case....I have had great luck with thin bead of Permatex right stuff at the cylinder base. BUT I have this engine that is using 2 cylinder shims per cylinder....Very concerned that Right stuff is gonna set up too fast dealing with the shims.... Wanting to get this thing back together today...Let me know. |
I use Right Stuff with 2 shims. There is enough time to work without it bring a problem. You dont have to rush. But don't doddle around either. I usually get the barrels on and torque down the heads with no tubes, let it aet overnight and the go the next day and finish the top end
brad |
Yeah - was talking to another shop that uses 3M urethane windshield sealer...Almost grabbed a tube, but the more I thought about it and researched sealing with shims, Right stuff will be fine. And I know how well it works. Was puzzled by the windshield sealer, but that shop had built several engines for me years ago and their question was "do any of your engines leak?" And no they don't.... Thanks all. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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