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JoeVanagon Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 61 Location: Vancouver Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: Help: New clutch slipping on 1990 2wd with RMW Suby - Update |
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So here's the rundown. Cruising down the highway, 60 mph, give it some gas to pass somebody, and the clutch slips, engine revs, let off the gas, it catches again, and I go on my way. This is repeatable, but basically if I give it too much gas, (in any gear really) the clutch slips. I have checked the freeplay in the clutch pedal and its fine. I checked the slave cylinder operation and it seems fine, and the clutch master cylinder seems to be letting fluid back in just fine. The lines to the slave cylinder are the hard plastic kind. The clutch is a nearly new Sachs unit sold by RMW. I have maybe 5000 miles since the new clutch and the conversion was complete. I put a new cross shaft kit in and new throwout etc during the swap. So what's the deal? Is the clutch glazed? Do I need a stronger clutch (was advised at the time of purchase that this clutch would be adequate)? Am I missing something else obvious to check? _________________ Joe Vanagon
1990 Carat with EJ25 SOHC
Last edited by JoeVanagon on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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JoeVanagon Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 61 Location: Vancouver Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Just started recently, so its a new thing. _________________ Joe Vanagon
1990 Carat with EJ25 SOHC |
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Vango Conversions Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2010 Posts: 1054 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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That's the clutch I use on all my 2.5 swaps and I've never had a problem with slipping, they work great.
I bet you've gotten oil on it, either from the transmission or engine. I suppose it could be glazed too, have you been doing any rough driving lately? Towing, off roading etc? |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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They only way to tell now is to yank it out, sad to state.....
It is just not clamping right.
NOTE: The difference between clamping and not, is VERY small.
-I found his out while getting educated about the Small Car clutch problems many of us have had. We developed a clutch setup now for the Small Car bell housing that uses NO custom clutch wear items...all wear items off the shelf which makes replacement easy when needed.
You should contact RMW about this issue.... _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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an86carrera Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 293 Location: Bradenton, FL
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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I recently had one start slipping all of a sudden. What happened was a piece of metal (I think it was a roller bearing from a starter that went bad) was rattling around in the bell housing for a while happened to bounce up and get caught in between one of the fingers and the pressure plate housing when I depressed the clutch to shift then let the clutch out to a slipping situation. I had never seen a clutch start slipping to that degree that fast before, usually there is quite a bit of warning.
It was particularly annoying since the clutch only had about 7,000 miles on it. It is now a spare as I had already bought a new one so I put it in. The little chunk of very beat up metal came out of the clutch assy easily with a screw driver once removed from the vehicle. I also found a complete roller bearing stuck in some grime in the bellhousing.
I was hearing some rattling for about a week prior to the incident. I was thinking I had another problem with clutch assy. _________________ Len
Current Vehicles
'84 Westy '95 2.2 Subaru
'08 Dodge 2500 diesel
'75 914 |
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JoeVanagon Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 61 Location: Vancouver Washington, USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks all. I was afraid of that. Well I know what I'll be doing this weekend. Maybe its just some oil or grime and I can clean it effectively. We shall see. _________________ Joe Vanagon
1990 Carat with EJ25 SOHC |
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Vango Conversions Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2010 Posts: 1054 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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If you have oil on it, I wouldn't try cleaning it, spend the $50 or so on a new disk and clean the rest of the stuff. You'd hate to have to tear it all apart again if you didn't get all the oil off of it.
Also make sure to replace the damaged seal or it'll just happen again.
I also like to make sure there is a way for any leaking oil to escape from the bell housing area. Usually it can leak out of the little cover over the gap between the engine and adapter plate, but if you used a sealant on there it may not be able to get out of there. The only reason to completely seal that area is if you're doing water crossings and such.
good luck |
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Franklinstower Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006 Posts: 1892 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, sounds like rear main seal leak, or the oil seperator plate is leaking - those are famous leak points on the subies, especially if the plastic seperator plate was not replaced with a steal one.
the plate is off on the bottom of this photo, black plastic ones leak, and the aluminum ones don't.
_________________ '89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
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JoeVanagon Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 61 Location: Vancouver Washington, USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:38 am Post subject: |
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The plate is steel and the rear main seal is new (second one after I drove the first one in too far). So I suspect that its not a seal leak, but who knows. I'm gonna tear into it tomorrow and assess the damage. I'll post updates later on what I find. _________________ Joe Vanagon
1990 Carat with EJ25 SOHC |
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JoeVanagon Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 61 Location: Vancouver Washington, USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Ok, so dove in this weekend and pulled the tranny. What I found was surprising to say the least. The cross shaft was essentially welded to the cross shaft bushing. When I put a new cross shaft and bushing kit in, I opted for a brass/bronze bushing, thinking it would be a step up from the OEM plastic one. But it was the brass bushing that galled and consequently seized the cross shaft. So it wasn't the clutch slipping, it was a stuck cross shaft that the clutch didn't have enough force to push back all the way and allow full clutch engagement. Anybody else put a brass cross shaft bushing in and have issues? I have a plastic bushing kit on order, thinking that the first one lasted almost 200k miles, so why mess with that kind of success. _________________ Joe Vanagon
1990 Carat with EJ25 SOHC |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Where did the bushing kit come from? Ask them about this!!!!
What a pita!
Seriously, that is why stuff is tested before placing on the market....
Dang, or did you not lube it correctly?
Manufacturing issue?
Install issue?
Can not imagine that it would do this as a normal course.
Something was wrong.
The people who made it are the ones that should advise on this one.
Let us know, too...... _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Huh? Thats a new one, thanks for letting us know the details. |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5375 Location: PNW
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:38 am Post subject: |
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What lube did you use when you assembled he cross shaft? _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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JoeVanagon Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010 Posts: 61 Location: Vancouver Washington, USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:01 am Post subject: |
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The bushing came from a Halsey Automotive, but I don't know their source. I'm going to speak with them regarding this issue. Can't recall the lube I used, but I do remember it being tighter than I thought it should be when I installed it. I thought it would wear in... apparently not! What lube should be used? The brass ones don't accommodate the bushing seals like the plastic ones do. How much does that matter for retaining any lube, I don't know. I'd feel better if the retention bolt for the bushing was hollow and had a grease zerk in it for periodic lubing. The bushing definitely were not oil impregnated, which would also have helped. _________________ Joe Vanagon
1990 Carat with EJ25 SOHC |
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Hodakaguy Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2012 Posts: 661 Location: Eastern WA
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mtnwater Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2008 Posts: 215
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:35 am Post subject: |
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JoeVanagon wrote: |
O The cross shaft was essentially welded to the cross shaft bushing. When I put a new cross shaft and bushing kit in, I opted for a brass/bronze bushing, thinking it would be a step up from the OEM plastic one. But it was the brass bushing that galled and consequently seized the cross shaft. S Anybody else put a brass cross shaft bushing in and have issues? I have a plastic bushing kit on order, thinking that the first one lasted almost 200k miles, so why mess with that kind of success. |
I had a similar experience. Mine wasn't completely seized, but I started noticing a groaning sound during warm temps as the slave labored to move the cross arm. Was very surprised to find the brass bushing was the culprit. I replaced the brass with the stock plastic.
I shared my experience with Daryl, and he indicated he'd never had a problem with the the brass bushing. Might be worth sharing your findings with him. |
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benandmj Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2012 Posts: 550 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Help: New clutch slipping on 1990 2wd with RMW Suby - Update |
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Bringing one back from the dead here.
I’ve got the same symptoms as the OP. I picked up a van with a fresh transaxle rebuilt ($ept ‘17). Once hot, the clutch slips around 3600 rpms. I initially see it in 3rd or 4th but it happens in all forward gears. Van has a GoWesty 2.3.
A few things to consider since I bought the van after the work was done:
I spoke with the shop that did the rebuild and they do use a bronze cross shaft bushing.
we are assuming a new clutch and good condition flywheel were used when tranny was installed. New man seal/ no oil on flywheel.
Brand new clutch master cylinder.
Previous owner is awesome but not at all mechanically inclined.
I plan to pull the tranny and see wtf is going on in there but I’m going to replace the slave first which leads to the reason I started this post:
Does the “clutch engagement lever” that the slave actuates operate from limit to limit? When I remove the slave shaft there is range of motion left in the lever. Like the pressure plate isn’t fully releasing?
EDIT: Could an elongated clevis pin hole on the clutch pedal cause this slipping I'm experiencing? Tackling that one before trans removal as well.
I guess I’m just looking for a reason to not pull a brand new transaxle from a van i just bought. I’ll report back. #vanlife _________________ 85 Westfalia Weekender
91 Syncro Westy |
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