My new baby! Auction of fake 23-Window Bus

[norcalmike]

Jeez, Looks like they used toothpaste.
Worst than a cheap rental trying to get their deposit back

[AS350driver]

[50ate]

[norcalmike]

[AS350driver]

[50ate]

That 4 in the vin that’s a little different? And the kombi that has 3 4s in the vin as a reference the last one being totally different? Throws the theory out the window. I’m not saying it’s a legit bus man I’m just saying what court or law or where ever he is gonna fight this is gonna award money based on that info? I don’t want to argue about this. I hope he gets his money back but I can’t see it being an easy task..

[norcalmike]

[Squilly]

Unfortunately whats been said above is true. Having worked for a different major auction house I can say that the final verification is the responsibility of the buyer. Auction houses take all the precautions that they can and present vehicles to the best of their knowledge. However, running a sale as large as Mecum does as often as they do, they can't have specialists thoroughly inspect each car in the auction and will often simply present the information that is given to them by the consigner. This is why all the "ballers" who are ready to drop lots of money on a car usually come in with an expert who will tear the car apart if it has the wrong valve stem caps I get that not everyone can have an expert look at the car for them though. Its just a bummer that this kind of stuff is more common with busses now...

[IN2VWS]

What are your thoughts on the chassis number panel? Does anyone think a new piece of metal has been welded in? If that is the case, and can be proven via x-ray or weld markings etc., then surely the previous owner/seller has a case to answer for VIN tampering......no?
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[LAGrunthaner]

Thanks for all you have taught us Brendan & others and I hope the lurkers will take the time to read the entire thread before they buy any bus. A good lawyer will hopefully get the job done and the scammers will pay back nestbedding all his money although it will take time therefore nestbedding think of this like our 403B's going up and down before you use it and try not to make yourself sick from this be strong and power on.

Nestbedding keep your eye on the prize as I bookmarked your thread and I'm looking forward for good news as it will come. When you get your money back buy your next bus from Brendan's company The Holy Grail Garage

http://www.holygrailgarage.com/1958_23_Window_Deluxe_.html

[ryans65]

There's so much nasty in this one pic, Looks like some flat bar bent into a sort of bumper bracket shape then booger welded on after it was painted, a pillar looks crunched and sorta of sculpted of bondo, dogleg lip looks like it was hammered on then bondo'd over. Lordy.

[pyrOman]

Holly shishkabob Batman!

As member #69 of the Hackasaurus Synonymous Union local 13, I can say my hacks look way better than that! WOW!
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[EverettB]

Obviously there's a bunch of hacked stuff here but I thought I would point out something that is easy to look at, if you know.

This 59 shouldn't have e-brake cables that go up into the cab - they are adjusted from underneath.
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[Clara]

[BUCIOBATISTI]

[capedave]

Just a quick comment to those of the just be happy with it crowd.

Do you even know what fraud is?

This needs to be remedied proto.

I just hope there is and insurance company involved they like to be sued.

Good luck and go get them!

looks like gold, smells like poop proven to be poop must be poop!

[sled]

Jesus Christ no one is saying be HAPPY with it, some people just aren't drinking ALL of the koolaid...maybe just a little cause that shit taste so good!




as arm chair critics, all we can see are these photos. YES, there is some sketchy hackery going on. BUT, lets just be objective for a second. This vin MAY BE from a real 59 23 window and there may be HUGE sections of the bus that are actually from a 59 23 window.

SO, how does this differ from all the HUNDREDS of other rare (valuable) buses that are now being reconstructed from 75% new metal. The problem is whoever did the work did it poorly, and used metal from incorrect-year buses and that makes us samba-experts huff and puff!

If this bus was restored 'correctly' but was still maybe not a complete 'real' 59 23 window then none of us would be any the wiser. Does that make sense?


If in fact the VIN is from a 59 23 window and titled legally, I am wondering how it is fraud. What it is, is a VERY POORLY restored 59 23 window, not a FAKE




this debate is along the very same lines of all the massive reconstruction projects that people are undertaking these days.. barn door 23 windows with 25% original metal, 1938 beetles with less than 50% original metal, Porsche 60k10 with only an original chassis tunnel and everything else built from scratch.



The buyer bought a piece of shit and that bums him out, if he can return the bus and buy himself a nice bus for 125k then that would be a happy ending.

I am NOT trying to argue that the buyer is the only person at fault, Im just trying to articulate that part of it IS his fault, wether we like it or not.
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drive your split.

[Lind]

I talk to literally hundreds of people every year who want to buy a bus. I try to give them advice so they don't get burned. Unfortunately, plenty of people do get burned to some degree, and usually because they ignore some or all of the advice.

I see the look in the eyes of a potential bus owner, and many of them very deeply desire bus ownership to the point that they are blinded to the reality of the hole they are looking into. That hole is a black hole that will suck all the money out of their wallet, and wreak havoc on their time, energy and love. At the end of the black hole is a bus that is worth around half of what someone has into the bus.

The advice I give is mainly three simple points:

Be patient. Watch the market for a while before diving in. Look at the prices on thesamba.com and see what stuff is/isn't selling for. Print out and bookmark ads of vehicles which are interesting to you, and look a them weekly to note how the price changes, and when they sell.

Be picky and get the right bus. If you can't afford a nice bus, you really can't afford a crappy bus. The lowest priced buses are usually the most expensive. Many shiny expensive buses are also total piles of crap. Buy something that is actually nice for real money and spend less money/time/energy/love on the bus and have more fun with it.

Get a pre-purchase inspection First, look at all sides of the vehicle yourself. See what functions, and what doesn't. If it looks and feels like dog-crap, don't bother paying someone else to tell you that. If it looks good, then pay an expert at an appropriate level to inspect the car and tell you what they find. The money that you spend dodging bullets is very well spent.

If the OP had done these things, then there would have never been a purchase. However the tunnel vision and desire to own such a wonderful thing can make the potential buyer miss things that they should see and know. This is a very easy trap for the inexperienced buyer.

buyer beware, be very ware.
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[vwuberalles]

Even aside of the fact the OP overpaid for a hackjob that may or may not actually be legally titled, I'd be concerned about if the thing is even safe to drive! If it's that badly cobbled together, I'd be afraid the pop rivets would break loose and the bus would split in half going down the road!
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[50ate]