Is the New Beetle's time up?

[oprn]

The emission laws are bogus, designed to favor large fuel guzzling expensive boat anchors over small fuel efficient cars.

Pure protectionism in my view.

[Butcher]

I've lived in the LA area in the early 70's and Tokyo in the late 70's. I can say for a fact, emissions laws are not bogus.

As a car mechanic, I can run a car with the door closed now, but in the 70's I would not last 2 mins. Take a look at a new diesel exhaust pipe, it's not black anymore.

Sorry your opinion does not match the facts.

[79SuperVert]

Same for growing up in NYC. Sadly, if you haven't lived long enough, you don't appreciate how effective these laws have been in cleaning up the air, because you don't know how bad it used to be.
_________________
Central Jersey VW Society

Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt.

[oprn]

I was working in the automotive trades when Canada switched to unleaded gas. The effect in the shop was immediate and profound, the stench in the shop whenever a car was moved was horrible! Our car is filled with that same stink now on the highway every time we are passed by a pickup or SUV.

Our two biggest cities here are around 1 million population and I can smell the exhaust several miles before we get to them. It wasn't that bad back in the 60s and 70s!

We recently spent 3 weeks in Argentina in and around Buenos Aries. They move 14 million people about their daily life in that city with far cleaner air than we have here in our cities of 1 million. There are a couple of things in my view that contribute to that. American built cars are very rare, SUVs and 4X4s are virtually non existent and the vast majority of cars on the road are small fuel efficient diesels and natural gas powered cars. I doubt any would get below 40 mpg. Yes and their mass transit is first class too. I could not believe how clean the air was walking around that city at 108*F and no wind!

The emission laws are bogus because they are based on bad science. These standards do not address the total emission volume of a given vehicle. They are based only on a very tiny component if that total emission measured not in total volume of that compound but in parts/million concentration. So one engine can be putting out low PPM but a huge volume and pass the test. Another engine could be emitting 1/10 the total of that compound but in a higher concentration and fail. And what about all the rest of the different gasses in that stream?

A prime example is the Hummer vs the VW TDI. A Hummer is using fuel at the rate of 9 mpg and can pass an emissions test but a TDI at 60 mpg fails. So we kick out anything that is fuel efficient and fill our streets with gas guzzling boat anchors in the name of lower emissions? That my friend defies all reason!

[APPLEGREENVW]

[Butcher]

That's a very poor example and is why rumors about the emissions testing are so bad.

There are emissions laws and moving product. I believe a semi should be allowed to use more fuel to get the goods to the table. Fortunately the government also believes that too.

I live in a country that allows a lot of freedoms and I appreciate that more than most. One of them is to allow me to pick the car/truck I want to drive. Although I think it's stupid to drive an H1, I would not want my will to be forced on someone else. If an H1 does not work for you, don't buy one.

I think it's stupid to assume that with less than 12k H1's that were ever sold to the pubic market [in the 15 years they made them] that they had more effect on the air than all the TDI's that VW made.

I'm certain if you add up all the fuel that ever when thru a Hummer and add up all the fuel that when thru a TDI, that more fuel went thru a VW than a Hummer. So what pollutes more? Hummers are toys that sit in the garage that are rarely ever seen on the street [except for the military].

Get your facts straight if you want people to think you're credible.

[oprn]

So you are saying that if everyone that has been driving TDIs in the past switched to Hummers we would have less emissions?

"Facts" can be rearranged to support any side of an argument you choose to flog, common sense tells me that you cannot reduce overall emissions by increasing fuel consumption which is what the American automotive community has been doing since the early 1970s. More is not less no matter you slice it, dice it or stir it up. Sorry!

That said I do see a little light at the end of the tunnel with the new direct injection gas powered cars that now make 40 mpg and higher.

To me the way forward to actually have a real effect on total emissions is to forget parts/million anything and slap a heavy luxury tax on based on overall fuel consumption. Continuing in the way we have been going is like a dog barking into a barrel, sounds pretty good to the dog the everyone else knows he's an idiot!

[ps2375]

I was going to get one of those Suby stickers that says PZEV, cause when my car sits undriven, it is actually a Partial ZERO EMISSIONS Vehicle. But they only come on the window and I'm not affixing a badge to my car.

[Butcher]

[oprn]

Ok so you are happy with the emissions gas guzzlers(drop the Hummers then and lets talk about SUVs and pickups)get at 12 to 15mpg then. That is what the majority of car owners here drive, that is still 4.5 times the amount of fuel that a TDI uses and 3.5 times more than the average 4 cylinder gas car uses.

So tinkering with a few ppm of one or two of the smaller individual components of the exhaust is going to decrease overall emissions how much?

The world community has set targets of a 30%(or there about)reduction in overall emissions(Ok I know your present president has opted out), how are we to achieve that by tinkering with a few ppm here and a few ppm there? That is like digging a basement with a spoon!

There is only 2 options to achieve that kind of reduction, drive 30% less or drive cars that use 30% less fuel. I doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out!

VW, Fiat, Peugeot, Mercedes, to name a few have the solution and the rest of the world is embracing it, we are too brainwashed by big oil and auto lobbyists and can't see the forest for the trees.

Freedom to choose? Ha! My freedom to choose a fuel efficient car has been taken away but your freedom to buy a gas guzzler and emit huge amounts of exhaust for me to breathe when following you on the road is intact. Think about that!

[Butcher]

You forgot about all the additional drivers that are going to be on the road as the 3rd world countries start to drive more. It's only 30% if there are no additional cars.0

I believe it's an honorable goal, but it ain't going to happen.

The topic was the Hummer causing more pollution than the TDI, not the future of the emissions. I stand by my statement all the H1's pollute less than all the TDI's and that the Beetle is a goner.

[oprn]

[ps2375]

[oprn]

As much as I have enjoyed my Beetles from the past I would not buy another air cooled VW for a daily driver even if they were offered new. Water cooled engines are superior in so many ways especially for us in colder climates. Even Porsche has finally dropped them from their line up. Aircraft is the only application that warrants fooling with them now and only because of the weight advantage over water pumpers.

I will still keep one or two around as long as I can for an occasional fun car though just because they have a special place in my heart!

[Wolfsbane]

If you want one, Just take a picture or swipe one off the internet. Then get it printed on waterslide decal paper.

Or buy one from Subaru.

https://subaruonlineparts.com/subaru-crosstrek-pzev-window-decal-p-4023.html

[Butcher]

[ps2375]

[oprn]

[quote="Butcher"]

[Butcher]

[oprn]

Here is a post I stole from the "High mileage" thread. This guy actually gets the picture!!


"Is an emission rating based only on percentage of gases out of the tailpipe really the full picture?

Say we increase squish as good as we can. (Weld up the head for more squish, lower deck height, super squishy pistons, etc.)

Fit twin plugs. Optimize mixture and timing, use a knock sensor. Maybe retard closing of inlet valve to lower dynamic compression.
Now we increase compression ratio to the limit.
Nox emissions may increase by say 15%.
But, fuel economy has improved by say 25%. (25% less total gasses exiting from tailpipe?
In the end, actual nox per mile travelled was reduced, while simply sticking a probe up the tailpipe would not show the full picture.

We could add a high pressure fan blowing into the exhaust system. (fan housing heater outlets?). Use large diameter, easy flowing silencer. Or add this air after the silencer, use large diameter tailpipe. Large quantities of air added will increase the overall volume of gases exiting the tailpipe. Those measuring in percentage should be happy. Just shows how silly the "percentage testing" way is."

I'm pumped! He can think for himself!