Another turn signal thread

[junichi]

Yes, I have searched and read for hours. I got the Wolfsburg west 4 prong turn signal relay and don't know how to hook it up. No threads I can find deal with all the wires, and just using the terminal #'s I am still confused.

Threads I have read that were almost right- a dozen others that weren't helpful are. It shown:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=197324&highlight=211953215c
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=288275

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

I also cross referenced some 1968-70 wiring diagrams to no avail and of course the one relevant to my late 1964 Kombi.

More to come..
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[junichi]

I have 3 sets of wires as shown

On the left, the grn/white/blk paired with the blue go to the signal switch and speedo bulbs, respectively.

In the middle, the purple/blk goes to the emergency flaher relay and grn/white/blk Comes from the fuse panel.

And on the right is another grn/white/blk that goes to the emergency flasher relay.

Where do these all go on the WW relay 211 953 215C?
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[busdaddy]

Seen this?: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/65bus_TurnSig.jpg
Does the WW relay have terminal numbers on it?
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[junichi]

Yes, 31, 49, 49a and C. The relay I am replacing is "J" in the wiring diagram, which is not marked with corresponding #'s.

Thanks
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[junichi]

I should add, the bus was converted to 12v long ago, but has been off the road and signals have not been working.
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[busdaddy]

#31 is ground or brown
#49 is power (black/purple)
#49a is blue (and whatever else is attached on yours)
So that leaves C, see if it's the same as S which is the black/white/green (KBL on later cars)
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

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[junichi]

Thanks, I was almost there. According to wiki, C is first turn signal flasher. This could sensibly go to the emergency flasher relay.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_72552

I am not sure what the old S and KBL were, but the KBL on the 1970. Us does not seem to go to the emergency flasher. Perhaps I shouldn't focus on that - it is what threw me off in the first place.

Can anyone confirm my third wire (blk, grn, white to emergency flasher relay) goes to terminal C?

And is the metal hanger on the relay a ground or just a mount?

Thanks
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[busdaddy]

At first glance I'll speculate it's merely a mount, an ohm meter between 31 and the tab will decide.
The 1970 system is radically different from the 65 system, instead of a relay combining the circuits to make them all flash it uses a complex switch, but the end result is similar.
The black/white/green on the 65 also branches off to the signal switch, that's a similarity to the later system but without the relay, it's 54bl on the column switch in yours. Some later systems combine the blue with the black/white/green, it works in a similar fashion but deletes the burnt out bulb warning system that 4 pin flasher incorporates.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[junichi]

Yes! Thank you, Bus daddy. No emergency flashers still but I assume that relay is also busted. Was hoping fixing the signals would make the 4 ways work, but nope. Also have a problem with one signal light to resolve.

The WW flasher says I must have 21w bulbs but I have 1156 bulbs (26w) and they seem to work fine. Will I burn out my flasher like this?
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[busdaddy]

[junichi]

I thought I had a bad bulb or wiring or ground but it turns the signal switch is funny. It works great on the right turn, but when I signal left, if I pull the switch all the way, it clicks fast like when the bulb is blown. And the signal does not work. But if I just hold the signal down about 3/4 of the way, it works fine and flashes slowly.
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[junichi]

I fiddled with the turn signal switch a little. It seems not much on it is meant to be serviced. After fiddling, it started flashing fast signalling right and was better left!

Can anyone recommend how to service the turn signal switch and/or tell me what some common issues are? Again it works if I hold it in just the right position, either left or right, about 3/4 of the way. If I push it all the way on, it flashes quickly like the bulb is blown. In all cases, when flashing quickly, the rear lights don't flash. Do I have a connection issue on the switch that somehow affects both rear lights?
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[BarryL]

[junichi]

Thanks, BarryL. Do I use dielectric grease? Will a couple loose strands on a wire make a difference? Soldering seems solid otherwise...
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[BarryL]

[junichi]

Well, did a really good clean this time and greased it up. It helped a little but still get the fast blinking sometimes. When I do, the taillights don't work. So the switch itself must not be fully connecting when pushed all the way. It works, so I am going to leave it for now- I have spent a lot of hours on these signals!

I put some tape in the hole so that the arm bumps into it before it can go too far. Seems to help a bit too. I can lightly flip the arm and it stays in place, blinking properly. If I push too hard it messes things up. I can live with it. Concours d'elegance, here I come!

Thanks for the guidance.

_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[BarryL]

[junichi]

Sorry, I meant rear turn signal lights. Brake lights work fine if the signal is working and flashing slowly. When the signal is flashing quickly, the rear signals don't work and the brake lights don't work on the side indicated by the signal switch.
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[junichi]

Well, only 4 and a half years on, I think I have this resolved. I replaced the signal switch and got the signals all working fine. Not long after, I noticed I had no rear signals when the lights were on. I left it for a couple years as I don’t drive the bus much at night. Fast forward to the past 2 weeks. Tried again to get the 4 way flashers working. No luck. Traced a broken wire to the tail lights and got those working..lights on and all.

I reached out to WW and they answered next day. I figured I would start from scratch and asked for the wiring diagram for the signal relay 211953215C.

Response:

49A - TS Switch wire
49 - Power fuse box
31 - Ground
C - Speedo light

I had the wires mixed, but the signals were working perfectly. Add in the 4 way relay, and I could get it to about 99% functional every time, wires crossed and all. For a guy that knows nothing about wiring, this is surprising. With a couple wires wrong, I would have expected bigger problems- not all signals and lights working other than 1 of my 4 way flashers (ok, I did have to turn the signal on to get one of the front lights flashing with the 4 ways).

Also replaced the bulbs with 21 watt, as directed in the WW page for the signal relay. Tested all the wires for continuity and voltage to confirm they were correct. Cross referenced to the wiring diagrams from VW and WW and voila!
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[junichi]

Here is the wiring diagram that seems to work for my bus, other than the grey wire is red in the VW diagram and WW emergency flasher diagram. And the one noted as gray/bulk in the WW emergency flasher diagram is black with purple for my bus.

And then what I did with the WW relays- 211953215C signal relay:
EDIT note this was not quite correct- see page 2

And 4 way flasher / emergency flasher relay 215 190 000:

_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf