Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
need anyone's help on cooling idea
Forum Index -> Other VW Vehicles/Volksrods Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dcavy
Samba Member


Joined: November 14, 2013
Posts: 13
Location: oswego il
dcavy is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

So Im hoping someone here can help me out with an idea for alternate cooling for my volksrod project. Im going at this with a different approach where I would like to not run the doghouse just due to it sticking up thru the window area. The idea on the build was to try and keep as much of the motor unexposed other than the area where the rear decklid would be. Ive re indexed where the rear torsion housing sits moving it about 10 inches forward and at least 8" higher to run a tall tire as you can see by the profile pic. Ive looked high and low for the horizontal fan setup but no one seems to make it anymore, and an electric setup I've heard cannot support the cfm needed for good cooling. Ive even tried the type 3 setup but it hangs out so far that it looks like I have a jet engine hanging off the back and have no way to hide it. Any help?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwuberalles
Samba Member


Joined: October 18, 2003
Posts: 449
Location: Richmond, VA
vwuberalles is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

Run a Corvair engine.
_________________
1973 Superbeetle: 1st car, owned since age 12.
1967 Kombi: Owned since age 17, Dad's retirement project.
1966 Beetle: My new project. Build thread--> https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=678040
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer


Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 9840
Location: Flippin' a Belt Off .....
VOLKSWAGNUT is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

dcavy wrote:
S. Ive even tried the type 3 setup but it hangs out so far that it looks like I have a jet engine hanging off the back and have no way to hide it. ]


Why hide it.. Anxious Embrace it.. It goes with the raw mechanical look..



The Corvair engine is longer than the Type 3 set up.. and a horizontal fan set up.. sucks..
A fan kit could be ceated... using some corvair parts . but the fan mount itself would be the kicker.. Corvair set up is similar.. but very different..

You cant find the Vw Horizontal fan kit anymore.. cause it didn't work well.. fried alot of engines..
Plus there is the whole carb issue and intake if you want to use stockish parts there...


Id convert it to Type 3 fan and roll .
If you dont like the rear fan look... build a louvered/mesh cover for it..




.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vaughn bros.
Samba Member


Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 1947
Location: Hickory, NC
vaughn bros. is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

If that's a carb and velocity stack location in the back window, then I'm sold. Very Happy Wild looking ride.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
eyetzr Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2013
Posts: 1159
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
eyetzr is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

You may start with a remote oil cooler to free up space on the motor, and pull some heat away. Creating a fan & housing my be the option to go with if you are not a lover of the type 3 look. ( you may want to look at Neil's bubble top build) You could just run some duct work & do the same as a BMW bike, drive fast, engine stays cool. Keep us posted. Cool looking ride.
_________________
I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bashr52
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5226
Location: On the Hill In J.C.
Bashr52 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

IF you managed to get enough ducting around the engine to drive air over the rights spots when the car was moving, you will still overheat quickly when stopped.....

If you do not want the height and look of the Type 1 setup, type 3 or 4 are really the only other options.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nshaddox
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2005
Posts: 274
Location: Hammatramma, MI
nshaddox is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

looks like even t3 cooling would be a tight fit unless you move the vent section up a bit and 'chop' the rear window opening some more. probably the easiest route. what is your plan for generator/alternator mounting? looks like that will be tricky too.

it almost looks like you have room to create some custom duct work to blow up from the bottom rather than from the top down. maybe if you run a pair of mini alternators you will have the power you need to run fans and do it that way? also mounting them under the crank case? not sure...post up a few more pics from the rear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dcavy
Samba Member


Joined: November 14, 2013
Posts: 13
Location: oswego il
dcavy is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

I had tried the type 3 cooling fan set up but it looked more like I strapped a jet onto the back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dcavy
Samba Member


Joined: November 14, 2013
Posts: 13
Location: oswego il
dcavy is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

I would have no problem using small fans with ducting but I believe they cannot support the cfm air volume to cool the heads when at a traffic light but if someone has has success please let me know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
andk5591 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 14648
Location: State College, PA
andk5591 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

I think there is data on here as far as CFMs a stock fan puts out. Was a pretty large number. Found it - Rob and Daves

Note: Air flow for the non-doghouse 1300/1500/1600cc engines is 20 cubic feet per second at 4000 rpm. The doghouse cooling fan is wider and blows around 25cf/sec @ 4000rpm, which is why cars with this cooling set-up NEED a slotted engine lid - the slots under the rear window are simply not large enough to provide the doghouse fan running with enough air at higher speeds.


So - looking at 1200 CFM....AND there is a little more to it because of the load. And there are pusher and puller type fans. Probably need at least a 10" or maybe a pair of 8 or 9". Assuming you took care of oil coiling separately, it would not be that difficult as long as you used stock cylinder tins. You just need to fab ductwork to give a nice transition from the fans (I would try to do 2 smaller ones) into the top of the cylinder tins. Why not.....

But pancake coolling with the extra ports for cabin heat cut off could be kind of cool and put a fan guard over the fan and paint the fan black. You will loose the jet engine effect.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
eyetzr Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2013
Posts: 1159
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
eyetzr is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

I remember seeing a kit car of sorts with 2 squirrel cage fans on top of the factory VW tins. They had some ducting running under the car. Not sure on the operation, but that may work.
_________________
I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bashr52
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5226
Location: On the Hill In J.C.
Bashr52 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

Do a search in the performance section on electric cooling, it's been covered MANY times. The power required to run the fans the size you need is more than the engine can produce. Drag cars run squirrel fans on top of the cylinders to run between runs down the track, but they are not enough to run at all times.

What about a subie conversion?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
eyetzr Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2013
Posts: 1159
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
eyetzr is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Something like this
_________________
I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dcavy
Samba Member


Joined: November 14, 2013
Posts: 13
Location: oswego il
dcavy is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

When this project started I wanted to go more into the direction of a motorcycle engine in the front and run a rear wheel drive set up but didnít have the knowledge, resources, or the finances to build an all out tube chassis. Iíve seen many do the s-10 conversion but everything to me is so bulky then your crammed into the rear of the car just to sit. My other option idea was I saw someone used a v twin before but never could find the resource for an adaptor plate. Donít know if it would have the same cooling issues considering it has air passing around it with no fans at all. I guess my big concern is the heating up at a traffic light. Iíve also brainstormed on one of the ideas mentioned earlier that I could blow 2 600 cfm 8Ē fans over the top of the motor in a custom panel like parcel tray blowing down on the heads and I already have a remote cooler on order. As far as airflow While moving I was thinking naca ducts in the side windows to deliver fresh air in. Any thoughts?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
andk5591 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 14648
Location: State College, PA
andk5591 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

Problem with naca ducts is not knowing how the air is actually going to flow...Placement is real important and I know enough about this kind of thing to realize that I don't know much at all.... Confused
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
eyetzr Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2013
Posts: 1159
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
eyetzr is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

Google Emerson Fittipaldi's double engine beetle.
Mid engine set up, but I think the routing of the air into the engine is an interesting thought. It used to push so much air in the car the top of the doors would start to open up.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jacks
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2006
Posts: 1656
Location: San Clemente, Ca.
Jacks is online now 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

How about a Puma fan shroud? Several inches lower than type 1 Idea
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?submit=yes&type=text&keywords=puma+fan
_________________
Jack Staggs
Actual name
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
Petfisheric
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2014
Posts: 97
Location: Knoxville, TN
Petfisheric is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

The Fittipaldi setup had the windshield canted back to make a ram air setup forcing the air through the ducting while moving. I have seen some corvair systems for type1 motors here is a link. https://www.speedsterowners.com/topic/std-vw-cooli...5770318909
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
eyetzr Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2013
Posts: 1159
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
eyetzr is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: need anyone's help on cooling idea Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This may be a bit shiny for you, but....
_________________
I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Other VW Vehicles/Volksrods All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB