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swharris
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 502
Location: N. Orange County
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 Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:16 am Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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Just one more thing that makes ya go hmmmmmm. I don't remember '58s being able to do that with 0 assistance. 
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BUCIOBATISTI
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2002
Posts: 6956
Location: San Diego, California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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The first pic is positively the same Bus, the second positively is not.
The funny thing about that first pic is that the caption reads "Guess the year"! Who the hell knows what the real year is and which section of the Bus are they referring to when wanting us to give an accurate answer?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BGLIz2wpp1_/
Note that in the second pic the Bus pictured has original taillight holes in the low position while the fraud has them directly in the middle, not an original position for any year.
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69827
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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For what it's worth, in my research of older ads on the site, the Bus was posted by 2 different users around that time.
My email records indicate Iconic Motor Wrx stated he was posting the ad for the owner. He asked me to remove his ad when I contacted him about the duplicate.
The other ad was apparently the true owner, as far as I know.
All of the previous ads and ad info I could find have been sent to the current owner.
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:44 am Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| Clara wrote: |
| Alan Brase wrote: |
I'm not much of a Type 1 authority. did type 1's end using the 1- vins the same time the type 2's stopped using 20- vins? That is, I believe, the last day of 1955? |
Yes, the 1- beetle VIN was used through calendar year 1955. ... but I don't feel like looking for the link. |
That's a fine answer .
I thought that perhaps the different 3's were changed on both TYPES at the same time.
They were all Wolfsburg that month.
Is there another thread that is better to discuss VIN stampings?
Al
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Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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RockStock
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 3929
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:20 am Post subject: Factory VIN Stamping |
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Top 1953 factory pic (& caption) from p124 of the book "Als der Käfer laufen lernte" by Bernd Wiersch.
Stamped em neat, didn't he? Big hands.
Hope it turns out ok for you, nestbedding. Stinks.
The couple of guys in here defending the situation are emphatically embarrassing themselves, like the token dickhead cop in a Die Hard movie.
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nestbedding
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2016
Posts: 85
Location: Oakland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:59 am Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| I think at this point it's obvious that the only thing on the bus that is a 59 is the vin number |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12401
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| Alan Brase wrote: |
| Clara wrote: |
| Alan Brase wrote: |
I'm not much of a Type 1 authority. did type 1's end using the 1- vins the same time the type 2's stopped using 20- vins? That is, I believe, the last day of 1955? |
Yes, the 1- beetle VIN was used through calendar year 1955. This is shown on the VIN charts on this site, in John Muir's Idiot Guide which pre-dates this site, in the front of Parts Lists, which pre-dates Muir's book, etc.
I bet there is something in the bug forums that explains the different numbers in different places on your old type 1, but I don't feel like looking for the link. |
That's a fine answer .
I thought that perhaps the different 3's were changed on both TYPES at the same time.
They were all Wolfsburg that month.
Is there another thread that is better to discuss VIN stampings?
Al |
I fixed my quote for you... the way you edited it made it mean something else. Did you need me to help you to the link to the bug VINs? There is a blue bar near the top of the page.... hover your mouse over 'technical'.... 
I don't know of a VIN stamping thread. Yes, it is sort of a hijack, but sort of not, as a few people were claiming the VIN looked iffy. So I thought I'd look at VIN stampings.
Great pic of the guy stamping the VIN in with dies! Love it! |
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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Just a thought...............
When is a car no longer the car?
Now I am not knocking the car here, but I am using it as an example...... The No.2 Berlin to Rome Porsche that is currently on exhibit in the USA......How much of that car is original and how much of it is new? So if that car is still classified as the No.2 Type 64.............What is the difference from that car, to the bus in this topic?
Another example......the chassis of the 1937? VW that was found (and I think for sale), When that gets restored, is that a 1937 car then?
Again, I am not knocking anyones car....just raising a point for discussion.....
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Z
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2003
Posts: 2517
Location: galveston, tx
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
Just a thought...............
When is a car no longer the car?
Now I am not knocking the car here, but I am using it as an example...... The No.2 Berlin to Rome Porsche that is currently on exhibit in the USA......How much of that car is original and how much of it is new? So if that car is still classified as the No.2 Type 64.............What is the difference from that car, to the bus in this topic?
Another example......the chassis of the 1937? VW that was found (and I think for sale), When that gets restored, is that a 1937 car then?
Again, I am not knocking anyones car....just raising a point for discussion..... |
I'll go: the difference is that no one claimed those cars were anything other than what they are, AND their restoration was done at a high level and documented by people with good reputations and a boatload of detailed pictures that will certainly accompany those vehicles in any future sales. So, what's different about this bus? |
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AS350driver
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016
Posts: 1340
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
Just a thought...............
When is a car no longer the car?
Now I am not knocking the car here, but I am using it as an example...... The No.2 Berlin to Rome Porsche that is currently on exhibit in the USA......How much of that car is original and how much of it is new? So if that car is still classified as the No.2 Type 64.............What is the difference from that car, to the bus in this topic?
Another example......the chassis of the 1937? VW that was found (and I think for sale), When that gets restored, is that a 1937 car then?
Again, I am not knocking anyones car....just raising a point for discussion..... |
Does that Porsche at least have a data plate/ID plate? Does the chassis number stamping look like this bus? Just presuming here, but there’s probably a paper trail and photo trail proving its provenance.
If everything was hunky dory with this bus, if they started out with a real 59 23W deluxe, even a rough hulk of one, you’d think they’d be posting pics of the “resto” in progress and putting all the doubts to rest.
I’m very curious how they got a title, and if it was issued by California, or from another state, and then California issued one based on the existing out of state title. There’s probably some way to avoid the California Vin verification. |
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Yustrn
JHC Controla
Joined: August 01, 2000
Posts: 5478
Location: Ovaland, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| I'd like to stick to the original topic about THIS bus and not other cars and what they did. |
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3931
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| Yustrn wrote: |
| I'd like to stick to the original topic about THIS bus and not other cars and what they did. |
Ya, let's not get into: "Is it still a barndoor?... they replaced so much metal"
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Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| Yustrn wrote: |
| I'd like to stick to the original topic about THIS bus and not other cars and what they did. |
Ok then....this bus.......It has a VIN, and it has a birth certificate to suit that VIN. I don't think there is any argument about the quality of work done on the bus, or the correctness of the panels and parts etc. They are crappy.
What proof is there that it wasn't a 23 window at some stage in its life?
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nlorntson
Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004
Posts: 3783
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
| it has a birth certificate to suit that VIN. |
It appears the Birth Certificate is a fake as well.
I have more than a dozen BC for various cars we own and all have some sort of water mark or special paper they are printed on. None are on plain paper like the one in the pictures. |
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen a pic of the complete BC, only a portion of it.
This BC was in the gallery....I don't see any watermarks....
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nestbedding
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2016
Posts: 85
Location: Oakland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| The birth certificate is not fake, that is merely a photocopy. |
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3931
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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I don’t remember if this is a pic or a copy... but, you’ll see the overall difference.
I could make mine look like yours in 20 mins.
(And I could add any info I wanted from any other BC I’d ever seen)
Apparently I may have already doctored out my name, can’t remember. Wouldn’t surprise me.
Modifying the other direction... would be more involved to make look legit.
Have a hard copy of the BC?
From what I remember... it’s not 8.5x11
It’s hard to believe how many eyes are on this.
This thread has more views than many “sticky” threads and other highly popular threads started over a decade ago... and we’re six days in.
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nestbedding
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2016
Posts: 85
Location: Oakland
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:33 am Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| Thanks for sharing your certificate. At this point, it really doesn't matter. The only thing on this bus that is a 59 23 window is the piece of metal that was welded in with the VIN on it. |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12401
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:17 am Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| nestbedding wrote: |
| Thanks for sharing your certificate. At this point, it really doesn't matter. The only thing on this bus that is a 59 23 window is the piece of metal that was welded in with the VIN on it. |
| BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
Boogery homemade transmission nose cone bracket to mate that 1967 Big Nut trans to the 36hp engine.
Obviously whoever put that combo together is in a league all his own...
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The buses came with split case trannys through VIN 469 xxx, partway through 1959.
The front tranny mount is different for the two tranny styles. It is not a straight bolt in of a tunnel case tranny into a split case bus.
But it's a conversion people have been doing for decades.
The split case trannys
-have that lower gearing for smaller motor,
-must come to FULL and COMPLETE STOP before shifting into 1st or reverse, which is not good in rush hour traffic.
-more expensive to rebuild.
- easier to find a good spare tunnel tranny, as many more were made.
The ugly booger welds on your bus at the rear torsion area look like what was done to attach a later front tranny mount so they could install a tunnel tranny. There are many ways people have done this conversion, some more elegant, or less elegant, than others.
It means that while there is clearly a 63 to 64 big nose chunk welded on to the bus, it does look like it came with a split case tranny. That matches the VIN.
I can't tell from here if your bus is a legit 23 window, I suspect not.
this is a split case tranny in a split case bus:
tunnel case tran mount in tunnel case bus:
There are some threads you can find in the FAQ in this forum.
discussions on Tunnel-case / Split-case nosecone adapters
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=198546
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=201901 |
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YadnusBug
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2013
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:22 am Post subject: Re: My new baby! |
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| Looks like a panel bus front clip, no passenger side visor. And that westy rack is at least a 62 and up, it's missing a clamp, and they look kinda long like bay westy clamps but not sure. |
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