Roll Bars/Cages

[tx_buggy66]

Looking for some plans/inspiration for a roll cage? Post some pics of yours so I can get some ideas. If you still have the plans/specs for it, even better!

Thanks
Paul

[Lo Cash John]

A good roll cage is like a tailored suite. Lots of measurements and thought should go into it.

Before starting on a cage, make sure the seats are mounted and you have a VERY GOOD idea on the exact position the steering columns and wheel will be in. You then want to sit in the driver seat and take pics & measurements for your cage builder.

Not doing that is like buying a random pair of pants and hoping they'll fit and look good.
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[joescoolcustoms]

I tend to go against the normal design sometimes. But like John states, a good cage is custom fit to the buggy body and you.

I put clear rubber snubbers on the top front leading edge of the cage to support the windshield at speed. It also helps the hard top stay sealed in the rain. So my cages do not fit parallel to the windshield, but tilt forward. At 6' 2", "getting in room" is very important, and that is another reason I push the tubing as far forward as my bender allows.

I also like very open designs that give the feel that the cage is not there. And flow like the body to give a feeling of movement when sitting still.

The rear of this cage was done just up and outside the body to give the max room for his young kids to fit in and not have the cage in their ribs.

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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[oprn]

I have a preference for the invisible style.

Yes I know... safety is what we are talking about here and should not be taken lightly, but...

Here is how I look at it - I wanted to buy a road bike and do some traveling/sight seeing in my old age. The wife said "Over my dead body! And forget getting me on one of those!"

So - enter the Buggy concept. "Yes," she says "that might be better." So call me an idiot but it gives me close to the same "wind in your hair" experience(more so actually as helmets are not required) with all the open road visibility for touring. And... the Missus grins like a school girl every time we take it for a rip!

What am I doing on this thread? Well I must admit to thinking about adding a single roll bar, nothing too intrusive or would destroy the nostalgic look of the car...

If the OP does not mind, I see the title is "Roll bars/Cages", could we have some bar ideas too please?

[vwracerdave]

I have seen lots of show bars built in Buggies that will do nothing to save your life in an accident with a 5000 Lb. SUV or dully Diesel pick-up. I strongly suggest you get a NHRA drag racing rulebook for guidance & suggestions on how to properly build a roll cage that will save your life.

I also see you are from Texas. I would not spend a nickel building anything until the state decides if the are gonna legalize Dunebiggies for street use.
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[Dale M.]

Pretty much agree with Dave....Believe NHRA requires 1-5/8 x .120 wall DOM as minimum.... Also consider side impact rails next to seats.... And not make mistake of making cage to low becasue it looks better...

On my street buggy IF I had to do it again I would have raises it a couple of inches and changed angles on bars joining front to rear... When PLAYING and doing some violent maneuvers like Autocross or chasing hot Corvettes or Porsches up mountain roads I sometimes get a little contact with head to center bars (not bad but not good) with my design......

Didn't make same mistake with race car though... Put the link bars on outside (instead of center) where they really should be...BUT when I built red car it was more for show and I did not realize it was going to be so much fun being on rear bumpers of more exotic cars when they looked up in their rear view mirrors...

This car was a parts build from scratch with intend of autocross racing...

Dale
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Dale M.]

[joescoolcustoms]

Safety in a street driven buggy with a full tilt NHRA roll cage is subjective with out wearing the personal safety gear. One was designed to be used with the other in order to get that safety. No matter the side impact protection from a 5000 pound SUV, without the personal safety gear on, your head still bounces off of the grill/hood of the SUV and the internals most likely scrambled, or your head bounces off of the roll bars themselves and gets scrambled.

With a full cage on the street, without wearing a helmet, even with roll bars 4 inches away from your head, 5 point belts to hold you very still, a minor wreck can result in serious head injury.

Pulling out of the driveway in anything is a risk. What you are driving does have a outcome, and I am not being light about that. But when I jump in my buggy for a cross continent trip of 8000 miles, I take into consideration I may not come back in the same condition. Risks are balanced for enjoying life and some safety that is better than doing it in a open top Miata with nothing, or a motorcycle. I base my risk on the thought of my buggy being a safer motorcycle.

You can go overboard and create a pig like I did with this one. Heavy, does not respond well, takes a massive engine to pull out of it's own tracks. Weighs 2275 empty. Lots and lots of hidden cage. But built to a racing spec.

Here is another design that is also built to a racing spec that will get driven across the North American Continent in less than 2 months, and weighs 300 pounds less than the top photo. Built to a racing spec. But no safer than a roll bar only without wearing that personal safety gear that is considered in the racing specs when the engineers write them.

All to consider. Do not stop driving your buggy just because we scare you with all this talk, just weigh it, make a risk decision you are will to accept, and go enjoy your buggy.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[oprn]

[goodsofar]

I would guess that roll bars are just that; something to protect the occupants in a rollover, not so much an impact.

I'm thinking of the vids with those extreme rock crawlers that roll over 10 ways to Sunday and the driver and car just keep on goin'.

[joescoolcustoms]

Merv, I also build the bare bones simple approach buggy too. It depends on what I want the outcome to be for what the buggy will be used for.

Since these buggies I built do not have the upper "bridge" structure that a roll cage provides to help reduce chassis flex, the chassis itself has a lot of hidden added strength inside the tunnels and the rocker-seal area.

But I built them for that more open feel the buggy gives you.

Just as a crash can never be predicted, neither can the severity or direction of the crash. Some people were able to avoid injury, or major injury by the fact their buggy was open enough they got out quickly, or the tubing was not there for them to bounce off of.

So, vehicles are dangerous, inherently. Pick your poison and go do something with life. Race, drive cross country, explore the back areas where you live, beat around the farm, tow it behind you to run around in when you get there, just enjoy it.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[andygere]

I think the point differentiaing protection from a roll over from an impact crash is an important one. On the mountain highway I drive every day, I see that single-car roll overs are very common. The vehicle veers out of the traffic lane, drives up the berm/hillside/slope off the shoulder (or barrier in the center) and turns over. Most of these do not appear the be multiple roll overs, simply an accident that puts the car on the roof. Many of these modern "safe" cars do not appear to do very well, with the A pillars almost universally collapsed.

Installing a roll cage that can protect the buggy occupants from a simple roll over has value, because it can happen quite easily. A simple hoop, properly built can do some of that, and a cage with tubes around the windshield will do better, etc., etc. As Joe says, it's all about your comfort with risk, and what you are willing to do to mitigate it. We would all be safer with full face helmets, 6 point harnesses, and a HANS device, but it probably wouldn't be much fun to drive these cars to our local coffee shop with all of that. As Racer Dave suggests, if you are going to build a cage, make sure what you are building adheres to good engineering principles so it provides as much protection as possible within what you are willing to build. I agree that the full cage provides substantial chassis stiffness that improves the driving quality of these cars immensely, so there are other benefits beyond simple crash survivability.

There are many other things that contribute to avoiding accidents, such as good brakes, adequate lighting (including brake lights and turn signals), good tires and so forth. Paying attention to all of these things that can help prevent an accident are as important as the equipment that helps you survive one that may happen. I think it's worth considering all of these things to help mitigate risks while still keeping your buggy a hoot to drive.

[wythac]

I would echo what a few others have mentioned here, that basically every body/pan /seating combo requires customizing...its why you will have trouble finding useful purchase info googling "pre-fab VW Dune Buggy roll cage".

Once upon a time there was an outfit in Texas called Hawkeye Buggies that provided custom cages. I recall they did (or do) some nice work, but I decided after talking to them that I'd rather buy a bender and go to town on some tubing, so I did that instead. No reflection on their work, I was just concerned that without my car at their shop for measurement, I wouldn't get what I really wanted.

A few idea for you if you are looking to jump start a cage project, with the caveat that I have not done this myself, but have considered doing if I build another car some day;

Try a search of "Class 11 roll cage"...you will find a few knock down kits that use 1.5" .120 wall tubing....since any kit like that would have to fit inside a stock beetle body, it will likely fit your buggy with some modification.

I seem to recall that the OD of my rear hoop at the top was 42"

Look at Joe's build threads/pics. He has posted enough different builds that you will likely see aspects of his work that you would incorporate in your cage.

I wont get into areas already covered better by others here on the virtues, vices, and physics of the cage in an accident, but I would offer that a full cage or even a rear bar that ties (at least) the rear shock towers together will firm up the ride of your car quite a bit...when the beetle body is removed from a pan, a fair amount of torsional strength goes with it. I like a firm ride, so I built a full cage. And I hope I never get to 'test" my handiwork.

My car isn't as fat as Joe's but once I added the spare+spare carrier, tree bars, engine cage, roof rack etc. it tips the scales at over 1600lbs. I wouldn't want a smaller engine than the 1776 in my car to push it down the road...so keep that in mind too, the more freight you add, the more freight you gotta haul.

[oprn]

I do have a complete roll cage.

That however is not what we wanted to go touring with. While I do agree that a cage would be a big improvement to the torsional strength and handling of this Buggy, I have this car to satisfy the urge to push the limits of adhesion. It would take a lot of money and work to make the Buggy match it in a corner and driving the buggy in that manor while fun might not be the wisest choice!

We have the Buggy for the nostalgic look and have no plans to get crazy with it on the road power wise or other wise. Just for the open air flash back to the past Sunday afternoon touring car. Ok I might as well admit it... This is a... Grampa car!
Plans are for a mild type 4 build(in progress), a brake/tire upgrade and a roll bar. As wythac so aptly put it- "the more freight you add, the more freight you gotta haul."

A couple shots of attachment points and brackets would be sweet Joe. Thanks for the Hoop pictures!

[cbeck]

It's just 1 big cage. Maybe some inspiration? I bought a bender and got carried away. All started by a h@r drunk in a ram truck.

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[oprn]

How about a Duramax, some monster mudders and a 50mm turret on the top?

Just kidding!

[Glasser]

1.625 Dia .120 wall Dom
10 point cage.

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Brent
My build up http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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[oprn]

Are you seriously still running drum brakes on that thing?

[Glasser]