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planning body off repairs: what parts do I need?
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bomberbob
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

When the snow finally melts I plan on pulling the body off and making repairs. Previous owner put in new pans (not sure how well), I have to fix whats left. I know the heater channels are roached. The door pillars down at the bottom of the door jam are on the list. I don't know about the Napoleon hat, and there is an area under the wheel well. I was at an angle and the camera wasn't focused (last photo), but if somebody can tell me what piece I can buy to replace that I will get it on order. I see the gasket between the body and the chassis needs replaced too.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

This is the exterior-side of the heater channel . . .
bomberbob wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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VW_Jimbo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

I think that last picture is of the heater channel. Thats what I think. Maybe take 3 or 4 steps back and click a picture, then place an arrow or draw an circle around the spot.
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

VW_Jimbo wrote:
I think that last picture is of the heater channel. Thats what I think.

It is . . . right side heater channel . . . as viewed from inside the right front fender. The spot-welds seen at the upper-right in the photo are at the front cross member (aka firewall).

Looks like it has had some "repair" done at some point.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

57BLITZ wrote:
VW_Jimbo wrote:
I think that last picture is of the heater channel. Thats what I think. Maybe take 3 or 4 steps back and click a picture, then place an arrow or draw an circle around the spot.

It is . . . right side heater channel . . . as viewed from inside the right front fender.

Looks like it has had some "repair" done at some point.


Sorry 57Blitz, I did not mean to post the same thing. I was typing a reply earlier and got caught up looking at a body panel diagram for the lower interior front wheel wells and the lower door A pillar. Then I had a customer call, so I stopped and finally posted. Did not even see your reply till right now.

That picture is just a little too blurry to make out any damage.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

I suggest investing in the Bug Me Videos for what ever repairs you plan to make. View them before you start disassembling things.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:10 am    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

Before you start to separate the pan from the body, brace the door openings on the inside so you can still close the doors.
Right now the pan is holding the body in alignment and if you fail to brace it before you remove the body, you risk tweaking the shell.
You need to be able to close the doors with the braces on so you can check door gaps as you go. IMHO, adjustable door braces are preferred, so you can dial in the gap.

Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

That is the Front heater channel section. You can buy just that repair section, or it is also part of the full heater channel repair piece.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I got mine here.
http://www.mtmfg.com/part/view/front-section-of-he...95+10+03+1
http://www.mtmfg.com/part/view/front-section-of-he...95+10+03+2

If you go with just the front heater channel repair sections, you'll have to buy or make the bottom piece that has the captive nuts that the pan bolts to, as I did in the bottom photo. Also, do what Danpa said so you can close your doors when your done.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

Bugstuff sells great door braces to install for when you lift the body. they bolt right up to existing hinge and latch locations.

http://www.bugstuffonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=1176

Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

VW_Jimbo wrote:
Sorry 57Blitz, I did not mean to post the same thing.
That picture is just a little too blurry to make out any damage.

No worries, Jimbo . . . no apology needed . . . confirmation is a good thing. Smile
the damage (repair?) can be better seen from the inside . . .
bomberbob wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That looks bad, but replace the heater channel and it will be good to go! Wink

Here's examples of the heater channel attachments for your reference . . .
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


rayvwbug wrote:
Bugstuff sells great door braces to install for when you lift the body. they bolt right up to existing hinge and latch locations.

http://www.bugstuffonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=1176

Ray


Those are cool . . . good idea!
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

OK snow melted, I am busy dissecting the car so I can make it safe again.
I borrowed copies of a couple of bug me videos, in particular the heater channel one. I think they show how to replace that lower hinge area, plus there are some youtube videos out there as well. Mine were in pretty bad shape.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Lower firewall is shot, I bought a replacement but not sure if I want to tackle that. I wonder if I should just replace maybe the lower half, and leave the upper half intact?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I also bought a front wheel well section to replace the one that was bondo'd by the previous owner. It goes all the way from the front apron, to the pinch weld. Again, the section from apron to firewall is fine, from there back is bondo. Surgically slice and graft in new metal? I have never messed with the pinch weld before.
Made a few mistakes during the heater channel removal, nothing a little sheet metal and weld cannot fix. Experience is something you get after you do something for the first time.

Oh, question. Since I could possibly replace several pieces, do I need to have the body back on the pans before I weld the channels in? It was a bit of work getting it up in the air. If I have to I will but if I can get around it I will try. I cannot do any of the other pieces up in the air.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

If it were I welding multiple panels into place, I would get the new heater channel bolted onto the pan, with the old seal in place. Then set the body onto the pan, with the old seal in place. Make sure everything lines up and tack it in a couple spots. Then cut your patches and tack them in. Just a couple tacks. After you get several pieces in place AND the door function and lines up. Add a few more tack welds. Lift the body up and weld away.

If at some point things do not line up. Stop, drill out the tack and adjust. Retack and move forward.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

Just went through this with a 71 standard. First, the heater channel front parts aren't even close to the same profile of the originals. Spent a LOT of time getting a reasonable fit. Not going to even attempt this again. Only a full heater channel from now on. Debating trying the Dansk ones, but seriously considering using Klassicfab and modifying the heater outlets.

Lower firewall - does yours have a hump in the middle? If so, lots of work trying to replace the lower 1/2. If I do this again, will do some more research, but thinking of probably starting with a Super lower firewall and modifying the ends.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

Hump in the middle for the "Napoleon hat" piece? Yes. I bought a new hat but after looking at it its pretty solid, so I will keep it as a spare part.
I watched a Classic VW video on youtube, they cut the firewall in half and only replaced where the double wall transitions to single wall (down to the floor). I am thinking about trying this but it has to be precise. Too high or too low and its not going to seal right.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

I thought a good part of buying this car (one of the few) was the fact that the previous owner had put in new pans. Went out to take a look at what I might need to do while the body is off, pan job is not that good. There was still wire sticking out of some of the welds. This front weld you can see a lot of daylight thru it.
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The front drivers wheel well was not the only place where they used pounds of bondo. When I cut off the passenger heater channel, they had pumped it in there too.

Oh well, something to keep me busy.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

Can somebody tell me the difference between using the 17 mm spacers between the body and chassis, and the 10 mm ones? Use these to tune how the door fits? I bought both because they were so cheap and I didn't want to order later and pay more shipping.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

Test fitting the new firewall before I tuck the chassis with new heater channels bolted on up into the body. Firewall doesn't seal with new gasket up at the top of the hat. I test fitted the firewall to a new hat I had bought in case I needed it, fits the same. Does the weight of the body crush the gasket and I will get a seal when everything is final mated together? Or is this just aftermarket body pieces I need to hammer into place?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

Heater tube on the driver side is not tucked neatly inside the rusty body (which will get replaced). Passenger side is. Driver side was in an accident. Previous owner filled it with bondo. I am replacing drivers wheel well next, along with that lower hinge area. I can't do anything about the heater channel, so do I take some straps or come-alongs and pull that body area inboard?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

Ouch! You have to pull the body in to match the channel. Bolt the channel to the car. Bolt the passenger side in as well. Get everything in place and lined up and hit it with a few tacks, all while making sure the doors work and keep in line with the other body parts.

I use a come a long or tie down stripes. I weld chain links onto the body part I want to pull and pull it.

Take your time and get everything lined up as good as you can. Hit it with several tack welds. Release the tension from the stripes and bolt it down onto the pan. Check everything. Then weld away or make changes and repeat.

So jealous! So much fun bending everything to fit! I just hate grinding!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: planning body off repairs: what parts do I need? Reply with quote

Thanks for verifying what I thought was the best route to go. Channels are already bolted to the chassis, with new gasket. I was going to tack weld what I could, but I need to replace that drivers side wheel well area, the firewall, both of those lower hinge areas that are rusted out, and a small area where previous owner bondo'd a rust hole on passenger rear quarter. I didn't want to try and do all that up on sawhorses for fear I would bend and warp things worse than they already are. I thought if its resting on the front and rear bolts and I have it stabilized as much as I can, I can tackle these one at a time.
New firewall will need some study. It doesn't seem to fit right. More bending fun I suppose.

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