Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
AT transmission shifting weirdness
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
blackglasspirate
Samba Member


Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1293

blackglasspirate is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

mikemtnbike wrote:
Pirate- Just sending you some positive energy. Your postings have shown you to be a resourceful- and realistic- person. You'll get it right.


Thanks for the encouragement and good vibes, I need all I can get!

I agree that the metallic bits came from something but so far the testing and inspections that I've done haven't shown anything concrete. I do know the torque converter bushing is brass as well and although it should have been new with the rebuilt torque converter we put in last May, the mechanic that did the trans work said it looked used. Given that the leak seemed to be coming from the TC, I wonder if that bushing is hosed.

I took it for another drive today and there was no weird or delayed/premature shifting at all. Everything shifted at the right time and smoothly, whether under gradual throttle or full. Kickdown worked as well. I'm not sure what to make of that but will do some more driving around town.

I understand the reasoning behind not driving it until I find someone that will work on it or find the source myself. Unfortunately here it's not that easy. At this point to find out what is/was wrong it seems like I've gotta remove the trans. I can't do that myself for multiple reasons, but primarily because I don't have anywhere to actually do that and if I did it would be outdoors with a rainy forecast all this week. The other problem is with mechanics, not just finding a competent one for automatics, but guys here don't usually just take things apart unless something is noticeably broken. It's just "no pasa nada, todo bien". It's unlike the states where they'll tell you that you need a new/rebuilt trans at the drop of a hat. Seeing as at this moment it's not showing any symptoms, other than maybe a small leak, no one is going to touch it. Not saying I'm not going to try, but it's a whole different ballgame here. I also need to get back to Bariloche (60 miles) because there's no one in this small town that could do it.
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
blackglasspirate
Samba Member


Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1293

blackglasspirate is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

Well, I drove it back to Bariloche today (commence the flaming), but still no progress on what to do.

The only thing that is still happening is the quick shift from 2nd to 3rd. Shifting manually works fine. I adjusted the brake band to test different settings. Tighter makes it worse (1.5-2 turns out after setting the torque at 43). I haven't tried more than 3 turns out yet. I also want to inspect the linkage tomorrow too on the off chance that something is wrong. I adjusted all that not terribly long ago so it shouldn't be a problem but who knows.

I haven't heard back from GTA and the VW guy in Bariloche still doesn't want to touch it. He said he wouldn't trust anyone else in town either because they might break something else and make it worse. Not sure how true that is. I reached out the PanAm travelers association group on FB for some leads and also contacted a T3 shop in Santiago to see if they know of anyone down here. I'm sure they'd work on it if I could get back to Santiago, but that's a long way and they still probably won't have the parts. If they did I'm sure they'd be $$$. I bought a USED charcoal canister and wheel hub grease cap from them for like $140. Makes sense, since it's hard to get down here but I can only imagine what transmission parts would cost - not that I have a choice.

Either way, I'm still stuck not knowing what parts I need and who to work on it. There's a shop on iOverlander in Bariloche that says something about automatic transmissions so I might swing by tomorrow and see if they can help.
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 10022
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

Maybe I am being stupid thinking this, but if it shifts fine manually and is not making more metal parts on the filter is there any reason not to travel on other than fear of the unknown?

Maybe call a good trans shop in the USA (German transaxle?) and talk to them?
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
blackglasspirate
Samba Member


Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1293

blackglasspirate is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

Well I was starting to think the same thing, given the current situation. The sparkle in the filter is what had me concerned. I did email German transaxle but am waiting to hear back. May be able to arrange some sort of Skype all with them.

I don't really think the 2nd-3rd early shift actually happened until I adjusted the brake band. I think I adjusted that when trying to fix the intitial problem and high RPM shifting, and then it started with this. The other problem so have since gone away and maybe were a result of low fluid.

I found a post on here from two years back from a guy in Chile that has an auto and went through somebody problems. I've also PMed him for any advice on parts/mechanics in the area.
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 22103
Location: North West New Jersey
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

If I read correctly it is working fairly well now?

Change the oil out three times, drive about 20 miles in between dumps.

The third time you've pretty much statistically removed all of the old oil in the system, only trace amounts remain.

Drive it a few hundred miles, change the oil again.

What do you see?

Decide from there your next step.

You may be fine........ you might not be.

Dave
_________________
I HATE PHOTOBUCKET!!!!!!

Karmann Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

86 Vanagon Westy "Weekender" 2.1 Auto
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
blackglasspirate
Samba Member


Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1293

blackglasspirate is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
If I read correctly it is working fairly well now?

Change the oil out three times, drive about 20 miles in between dumps.

The third time you've pretty much statistically removed all of the old oil in the system, only trace amounts remain.

Drive it a few hundred miles, change the oil again.

What do you see?

Decide from there your next step.

You may be fine........ you might not be.

Dave


Yeah, you read correctly. Only the early 2nd-3rd upshift that could have been from me messing with the brake band. I need to get a torque wrench in inch pounds because I've been making sue with my ft lb wrench that only reads down to 10. I can go lower and measure the turns but not sure how accurate it is after 10.

I think today I'll try changing the oil one more time, check the filter after my 60 mile drive yesterday, adjust the brake band, and check the linkage again. I don't know if I want to mess with adjusting the linkage again quite yet because it should be fine.

Thanks for the advice, Dave!
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Butcher
Samba Member


Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 787
Location: Right Here
Butcher is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

The brake band is applied by hydraulic pressure. It's false to assume that the adjustment that you are making is causing the shift timing issue. If your 2-3 is too early, it's a timing issue and I would look into the valvebody/governor areas.

I would be very careful about adjusting the band too tight. If you know how the band works, if there is not enough clearence, the drag will cause it to engage by itself. You surely do not want to experience the transmission locking up because the band does not release when it shifts to 3rd.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
blackglasspirate
Samba Member


Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1293

blackglasspirate is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

Butcher wrote:
The brake band is applied by hydraulic pressure. It's false to assume that the adjustment that you are making is causing the shift timing issue. If your 2-3 is too early, it's a timing issue and I would look into the valvebody/governor areas.

I would be very careful about adjusting the band too tight. If you know how the band works, if there is not enough clearence, the drag will cause it to engage by itself. You surely do not want to experience the transmission locking up because the band does not release when it shifts to 3rd.


I agree. I don't think it's the source of all my problems but th 2nd-3rd upshift issue only started once I tried to readjust the band. Could have been a coincidence, but I wanted to find out. I was able to find a torque wrench that went down to 5nm, which was expensive down here, and I adjusted the band per the Bentley - 10nm, loosen, 5nm, out 2.5 turns. The problem is still there

In fact, since changing the fluid again yesterday and adjusting the brake band to spec, it may even be worse. It seems to only really be a problem when cold. When cold it seems like it slips trying to go to 2nd and then just goes to 3rd. Once warm it will shift smoothly between all 3, it just won't stay in 2nd for very long on most occasions. If I floor it it tends to stay in second for as long as it should. If I'm light on the gas it breezes through it.

I did find a little more debris in the filter when I took it out but not too much. It could have been what was working its way through the system already but I'm not sure. Some driving and then a final change/inspection may be in order. The fluid seemed kind of dark for having two changes recently but maybe that's just me. Unfortunately the weather here has been taking a turn for the worse. Before the problem came up it was nice summer days - now all of a sudden it is raining, cold, and incredibly windy.
I'm embarrassed to say that I even forgot to clean the filter when I put it back in yesterday because the wind as so bad. It was so strong it was rocking the van and sending dirt/dust everywhere. I was afraid it would all blow up into the open tranny, so I closed it up as fast as I could.

I still have not removed/cleaned the governor. A guy saw me working on the van yesterday and offered to let me use his garage where I can walk underneath the car (don't remember the term in English so I sure don't remember what it was in Spanish). I might give him a call today and try to do that, though I doubt it will help.

German transaxle finally got back to me but wasn't very helpful. I gave them a rundown, sent a picture of the filter debris and asked for their thoughts on how much was there and everything. They basically said "yeah there's some debris there. We'd recommend cleaning it well when disassembling".
Not super helpful. They do have a rebuild kit for almost $500, which I may end up having to get but I'm still not sure what part is the problem yet. I also have 3 contacts now here in Bariloche that are asking around for me in regards to who can potentially work on it but all have said it's hard for automática. The T3 specialists in Santiago still haven't gotten back to me.

On top of all of that my last tank of gas I only got 14mpg, down from nearly 20. Not sure if that's related or just another problem to look at. So far I've only made sure the TPS is working and O2 is plugged in.

When it rains it pours, right?
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 11209
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

a couple thoughts.

delays in the upshift can be caused by piston seals being hard and bleeding off till they warm up and seal better.
can be caused by a mis adjusted "manual valve" that is the throttle input relay lever on the Pass side of the transmission where the throttle cable fastens then relays to the throttle body. that relay lever inacts a valve internal to the transmission that effects the urgency or laziness of upshifts.

possibly a failed 2nd gear band piston circlip failure which damages the 2nd gear piston seal. you can service the 2nd gear piston w/o removing the transmission. but you will need to drop the pan & valve body to reseat both sides of the band (piston on driver side, adjuster pin on the Pass) there's a TK thread on 2nd gear pistons in here someplace.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=587711
_________________
Vanagon List Archives
The only cheap thing in a classic VW sits behind the steering wheel
THE List ala Sanchius
syncroserge wrote:
The way these vans have shaped and enriched our family life would make one believe these darn things have a soul Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Butcher
Samba Member


Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 787
Location: Right Here
Butcher is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

Without a clear diagnostic path, you are not going to get anywhere fast [or cheap]. There are plenty of diagnostic manuals in the Samba that will help you find your way thru your issue.

You should get some pressure gauges so you can see what the valvebody is seeing. There is not much that someone can do over the phone or internet to point you to your problem.

Many of technicians have been led astray because they did something and another thing happened. That is the great thing about diagnosis. You make a test, then a decision. What you are doing is making a band adjustment and assume that it's causing your problem. What you need to do is prove that adjustment could cause your problem. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's difficult. You need to make certain the hydraulic circuit is sealed/working properly in the transmission and make certain the valvebody is doing its job.

Read up on this https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/techtran_vw_transmission_003_010.php and search other treads of transmission rebuilds so you are familiar with what's going on. You need to buy some tools or you will be at the mercy of others that may have as much clue to what's going on as you.

You could rebuild the transmission but what if the valvebody is the cause?

It's called a 'pit'. Where you climb down into a hole while working under the car. It can be a great tool but has it's downfalls.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
AndyBees
Samba Member


Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 1520
Location: Southeast Kentucky
AndyBees is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

As I mentioned previously, the 87 Quantum tranny I rebuilt had very hard seals. It would not shift good at all while cold and from 2nd to 3rd was the worse! After the rebuild, it shifted just fine. Of course, it does appear there may be other issues.

Did you check to see if RockAuto would ship to South America? About $150.00 plus shipping for a kit is not bad.

Dave offered you a known good valve body for basically free!
_________________
1983 Vanagon, Tin-top, Air-cooled Gasser, driven to Alaska 7 times (moth-balled)
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI engine, completed 8/2012. Driven to Nova Scotia 9/13 and Alaska July 2014 and July 2016..pulling a PopUp Camper. 1989 Carat, 3rd owner.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Butcher
Samba Member


Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 787
Location: Right Here
Butcher is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

The transmission was rebuilt recently so the seals should not be hardened.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
blackglasspirate
Samba Member


Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1293

blackglasspirate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies and suggestions, all.

Dan, I was kind of thinking along those same lines. Hard seals that soften up when warm and maybe the second gear band piston. The band engaged fine when I did the compressed air test, but who knows. If I can find someone where I can work on this for a few days, I'm going to investigate that possibility more.

Butcher, I agree completely. The only reasoning behind trying to buy everything I might need at once (even if I don't need it) is just because once the trans is out/apart it's going to be even more time/money to make a second shipment. It kind of sucks either way I guess. I will read through that manual you sent. I have another 010 troubleshooting guide as well that I've been using. I was also thinking of getting a pressure gauge as you suggested. The one I have now for my makeshift engine oil pressure gauge doesn't go high enough for the pressures I'd supposed to get from the trans, except the readings where the van is stationary.

Andy, I just looked on RockAuto and they do (apparently) ship to Argentina and Chile, though I believe, at least in Argentina, there will be more importation fees before I can pick up the package. I still need to look into it. The price to Bariloche is around $160 but it would take over a month to get here. Shipping into Chile is slightly cheaper than Argentina and much faster. 4-5 day shipping to Chile is $140 and 2-3 day shipping is $200. And yes, Dave did offer me that valve body and I might take him up on it if I can actually get it down here!


Yesterday I cleaned the governor just for shits and giggles. It didn't seem dirty anyway, but it was worth a shot. Afterwards it seemed to be a bit better but it's almost certainly my imagination. The guy who let me use his garage also took me around town to about every mechanic, each one saying they couldn't do it but to ask this other guy. We went to at least 7 mechanics before we ended up back at the original VW mechanic I started with. It seems that unless I find someone to let me use their garage for a while and a way to get parts, Bariloche is not the place to do this. The guy who showed me around said he would do some more research on mechanics in the next closest big town Neuquen. Parts would likely still be an issue there but there are more mechanics. A friend also just told me about a VW mechanic across the Chilean border in Temuco who might be able to help. Unfortunately I don't have the guy's number or anything. I think both towns are roughly 500km from here.

There's a possibility I could have my brother fly down with some parts, since he was thinking about coming to visit anyway, but that only solves part of the problem.

Hey, at least it's sunny today!
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
blackglasspirate
Samba Member


Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1293

blackglasspirate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

Butcher wrote:
The transmission was rebuilt recently so the seals should not be hardened.


True, though I wouldn't think I'd have metal bits in my filter on a trans this new either :/

Who knows what happened, but I didn't expect any problems with this trans given the age, other than maybe a leak or two here and there. Never had any problems with my original trans other than a few leaks. Then again, my original trans didn't get put through climbing the Andes.

The TC and seal, and differential and its seals are less than a year old. Same for the filter. The rest of it is a little over 2 years, though a lot of miles in those 2 years.
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Butcher
Samba Member


Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 787
Location: Right Here
Butcher is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

How many miles?

It's not always the case, but rarely is something rebuilt is remanufactured to new. Many of the parts are the same [gears, pump, etc] only the soft/wear parts are replaced. So it is a real good possiblity that the parts in your transmission were originally installed at the factory and are not new.

I look forward to the final answer because that answer will certainly help others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
blackglasspirate
Samba Member


Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1293

blackglasspirate is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

The trans has about 50,000 miles.

Not sure what the solution is yet but my only option may be to keep driving it and see what happens. I wouldn't trust it to get me back through the Northern Andes, but for the immediate future the route is much more flat.

I heard back from the VW guy in Temuco and he can't help - says he doesn't know autos. I have one last ditch effort today here in Bariloche and after that I'm SOL. Guess maybe I'll just set up residency here in Bariloche and never leave. Not such a bad place.
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 11209
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

Cough.cough. ahem.
(In a surly voice)
Tony Stark fixed one of them in a campground.
On a picnic table with SCRAPS
Laughing

there a video in a thread in here someplace
I'd find if but I'm on my phone and am over 45. Embarassed
_________________
Vanagon List Archives
The only cheap thing in a classic VW sits behind the steering wheel
THE List ala Sanchius
syncroserge wrote:
The way these vans have shaped and enriched our family life would make one believe these darn things have a soul Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
blackglasspirate
Samba Member


Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1293

blackglasspirate is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
Cough.cough. ahem.
(In a surly voice)
Tony Stark fixed one of them in a campground.
On a picnic table with SCRAPS
Laughing

there a video in a thread in here someplace
I'd find if but I'm on my phone and am over 45. Embarassed


He's got bigger cajones than I do, that's for sure! I'm actually re-reading that thread now. I don't have any problem trying to take it apart myself and figure it out but don't have a space to do so. It's rainy/cold/windy most days and the shops I've been to don't have enough space to let me "rent" out a spot to work on it - not in Bariloche anyway. But, to your point, that had me thinking how any mechanic down here could do it if they wanted to, they just don't. They use the "I don't know autos" as an excuse. If I could just find a mechanic (or someone with a big garage) that's just willing to help or give me space I think that would be enough. Still looking for that though and emailing every VW club in Chile and Argentina that I can find!

If it comes to it I may just have to keep driving, hope everything is OK for a while, and have a friend come down in a month or two with a bag of tranny parts. We'll see!
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
riceye
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1395
Location: Caledonia, WI
riceye is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
Cough.cough. ahem.
(In a surly voice)
Tony Stark fixed one of them in a campground.
On a picnic table with SCRAPS
Laughing

there a video in a thread in here someplace
I'd find if but I'm on my phone and am over 45. Embarassed


Found it:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...ping+table
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - R.M. Pirsig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 11209
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: AT transmission shifting weirdness Reply with quote

do you have your bently manual with you?
automatic is in section 38 (page 1144 in this PDF)

http://www.gmac999.com/Downloads/Bently_Manual_VW_Vanagon_1980-1991.pdf
_________________
Vanagon List Archives
The only cheap thing in a classic VW sits behind the steering wheel
THE List ala Sanchius
syncroserge wrote:
The way these vans have shaped and enriched our family life would make one believe these darn things have a soul Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 2 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB