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oclv99
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2018
Posts: 1
Location: Boston
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 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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I have a 1995 Eurovan camper with the 12 valve motor. I would like to replace it with a bigger, 24 valve motor and transmission. Is this technically feasible? Anyone know a shop that has completed this conversion previously? Much thanks in advance.
oclv99 |
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Joshwa
Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2015
Posts: 810
Location: North Seattle WA
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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Perhaps the OP is thinking of going from a 10v to a 20v Audi engine. I don't think it would be worth it to try and swap a 24v into a 12v van. A 12v can be hopped up to produce lots of power without all the extra valves.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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DenverB
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2012
Posts: 704
Location: Denver, Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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if you've got a 95 eurovan camper here in the US and it was orignally a US-sold vehicle, you don't have a 12 valve vr6.
You have a five cyl. audi engine in there.
From what I understand, you can't do the swap without major work -- a 95 is a 'short nose' van and the vr6 engines all came in 'long nose' vans. Not sure the vr (12 or 24) would cram into the short nose space (i'm pretty sure that was one of the major reasons for the design change).... hell, i could barely get a trans cooler in the front of a 95..
in short: you'd probably be better selling your van and spending any money you would have spent on the 'upgrade' and buy yourself a van with the engine you want.
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'77 Transporter/camper (Bussy - Reef Blue/Pastel White)
'67 bug (Santos - VW Blue)
'84 Vanagon Westfalia (Pink Flamingo - Pastel White/Pink)
'88 Vanagon GL Westfalia (Frankie Says - Wolfram Gray)
'02 Eurovan Weekender (Green Apple)
'95-'03 Eurovan full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'84 -'91 Vanagon full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'72 Porsche 914 (Greta - RIP)
www.RockyMountainCampervans.com |
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DenverB
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2012
Posts: 704
Location: Denver, Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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... or just enjoy the camper you have. It's a VW van after all, not a race car. 
Also, isn't it relatively flat where you live? I'm in Colorado and don't have a problem with the 5 cyls personally. Slow and pokey, sure... but they get where they are going just fine 
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'77 Transporter/camper (Bussy - Reef Blue/Pastel White)
'67 bug (Santos - VW Blue)
'84 Vanagon Westfalia (Pink Flamingo - Pastel White/Pink)
'88 Vanagon GL Westfalia (Frankie Says - Wolfram Gray)
'02 Eurovan Weekender (Green Apple)
'95-'03 Eurovan full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'84 -'91 Vanagon full campers and weekenders (rental fleet)
'72 Porsche 914 (Greta - RIP)
www.RockyMountainCampervans.com |
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pinetreeporsche
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2009
Posts: 752
Location: Falls Church, VA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| ... A 12v can be hopped up to produce lots of power without all the extra valves. |
Z: Is there a single source (Samba or other) to go to get the tips on these secret mods? ...Or even a short list of different sources? Who wouldn't want to know? |
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volkybus
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2013
Posts: 481
Location: CASTLETON VT USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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| Can you put a power chip in in or a carb perhaps a weber or something? Mine has lots of power but fouls the plugs often. |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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| pinetreeporsche wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| ... A 12v can be hopped up to produce lots of power without all the extra valves. |
Z: Is there a single source (Samba or other) to go to get the tips on these secret mods? ...Or even a short list of different sources? Who wouldn't want to know? |
I'm not a VR6 expert, but I've got a 12v sitting in my shop right now that has an impressive list of upgrades. It's been punched out to 3.0L and has forged pistons and H-beam rods. It was built to be turboed and put out around 600hp. It's going into a Corrado, but an EV should also be capable of getting a similar treatment.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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Perhaps this is a thread hike? I've got a 93 EV,5 speed pretty nice van but the motor had leaking head gasket, sat years with water in #5 and now has pretty bad cylinder etching. I actually had it driving and it did run on all 5. I've got the head and pistons out now and even a nice set of used AAF pistons, but reluctant to reassemble it and go to all that work only to have more problems 10-20k miles in.
I do have access to a BRAND NEW Audi 5 cylinder shortblock, probably from the 80's. Not sure the size. Will my AAF Head fit on that and make me a happy motor? Must be a 2.2 or 2.3, I'd guess. I'll have to get the owner to dig it out and figure out what it is exactly. I know Audi's use the distributor drive on the idler shaft, I'll have to deal with that.
I suppose boring and oversize pistons is the actual best answer.
that gets into another situation:
While I love the sound and smoothness of the 5 cylinder, its 109hp is pretty weak. I know I could bump up to the 1995 ECU spec engine with higher c/r and knock sensor, spending maybe $1500 more? Are ther any other sensible upgrades for the 5?
It almost makes more sense to do a 1.8 or 2.0 Turbo conversion. Now that is a lot more power and not terribly expensive to do I think.
BTW, this is a tin top base model. I'm fine with that part. Nice car and fun to drive.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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subdewd
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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| Personally I would have your present block machined if it's not too rusted |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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So, has anybody had good experience with an engine swap from an early 5 cylinder Eurovan to a more powerful engine?
Or can lead me to threads on another forum? I realize there is probably not a hotbed of EV stuff on theSamba.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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subdewd
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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There's a write up on vw vortex. The guy swapped in a 1.8 turbo
A while back. The vehicle is actually on sale in the samba classified. Send he did a good job, I've considered buying it, the Covid. |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:30 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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| subdewd wrote: |
There's a write up on vw vortex. The guy swapped in a 1.8 turbo
A while back. The vehicle is actually on sale in the samba classified. Send he did a good job, I've considered buying it, the Covid. |
I saw that and contacted him. I agree.
but I really like the unique sound of the 5 cylinder.
anybody doing a 5 cylinder swap?
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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subdewd
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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Not sure I understand. You want to keep the 5? If so yes I have pulled and replaced.
The guy I bought the replacement from suggested you can turbo it with some exhaust work and ecu programming. Never seen any other reference to that |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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Yes, perhaps keep the 5 cylinder or maybe get a newer 5 cylinder even a TDI 5 which would have to put out some serious power? Of course, then it is geared too low.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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| Back to top |
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smores
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2020
Posts: 91
Location: RNO
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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| Alan Brase wrote: |
| Yes, perhaps keep the 5 cylinder or maybe get a newer 5 cylinder even a TDI 5 which would have to put out some serious power? Of course, then it is geared too low. |
Yes, I've been wondering about this exact thing to for when my AAF dies. Should I find another more modern AUDI/VW 5 to install? But then what to do about the gearing, can I fit another Ring and Pinion in my 5speed to just bring all the ratios up? Or will I need to find another trans? |
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Joshwa
Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2015
Posts: 810
Location: North Seattle WA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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| smores wrote: |
| Alan Brase wrote: |
| Yes, perhaps keep the 5 cylinder or maybe get a newer 5 cylinder even a TDI 5 which would have to put out some serious power? Of course, then it is geared too low. |
Yes, I've been wondering about this exact thing to for when my AAF dies. Should I find another more modern AUDI/VW 5 to install? But then what to do about the gearing, can I fit another Ring and Pinion in my 5speed to just bring all the ratios up? Or will I need to find another trans? |
If you’ve got a 5speed, you can change the ring and pinion to a different ratio(may be difficult to locate). You could also change out 4 and 5th gear(german transaxle?). Or change out just 5th(diy) and have a gap from 4th. Last option would be to get a EWB or DUQ 02b transmission that is higher geared. A few options to work with.
_________________
93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93 |
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smores
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2020
Posts: 91
Location: RNO
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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| Joshwa wrote: |
| smores wrote: |
| Alan Brase wrote: |
| Yes, perhaps keep the 5 cylinder or maybe get a newer 5 cylinder even a TDI 5 which would have to put out some serious power? Of course, then it is geared too low. |
Yes, I've been wondering about this exact thing to for when my AAF dies. Should I find another more modern AUDI/VW 5 to install? But then what to do about the gearing, can I fit another Ring and Pinion in my 5speed to just bring all the ratios up? Or will I need to find another trans? |
If you’ve got a 5speed, you can change the ring and pinion to a different ratio(may be difficult to locate). You could also change out 4 and 5th gear(german transaxle?). Or change out just 5th(diy) and have a gap from 4th. Last option would be to get a EWB or DUQ 02b transmission that is higher geared. A few options to work with. |
Thanks Joshwa. I’ve been slowly learning these things to have knowledge of what to do the day my AAF or CHP dies. |
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d-9
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2016
Posts: 105
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:57 am Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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[quote="Alan Brase"]
| subdewd wrote: |
I really like the unique sound of the 5 cylinder.
anybody doing a 5 cylinder swap? |
Tuning the 2.5 petrol is pretty unusual, you'll be looking at old school na tuning, headwork, cams etc. Big spend for small gain.
The other option is building/swapping a turbo motor, these motors are very similar to the 1980s audi 5 cylinder turbo. A few vans have been built using the aan, you might find a combo of bits that let's you turbo yours, or maybe swapping in the motor from an audi s2/s4/ur s6 |
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volkybus
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2013
Posts: 481
Location: CASTLETON VT USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Eurovan Motor and Transmission Upgrade |
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| How about a swap to the later 5 cyl 95 or so.Will it bolt in? How bout the latter 5 cyl from jettas and NB's I have a 93 mv converted from auto to 5 spd...Bill in Puerto Rico |
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