Engine Value

[chicagovw]

Hoping someone can help here. I have a 1974 Bus I am doing a Subaru conversion on (I know I know)-the reason being is that it is part of the service fleet for my plumbing business. We have two fuel injected Buses which are great, but my plumbers are not car guys and some of them have trouble starting it when it is very cold out, and I have to run out and do it for them if it has been sitting on a job all day. I have yet to come across a decent set of choke equipped carbs, so I have decided that for our use, this is the way to go.

I am going to sell the old engine, and am trying to determine a value. It was a 1700, and I had the top end rebuilt about 12,000 miles ago. It still has some warranty left, in fact (3/36 when I had it done). It received new slightly larger pistons and cylinders from FAT Performance, and the heads were original VW units rebuilt by Greg Aronson at FAT. It had new heater boxes and exhaust, and new Kadrons set up by the Kaddie Shack, as well as new rod bearings. Sheet metal was repainted. Its a really nice, well running engine and if I was the only one using this bus, it would be left as it is. But again, it gets multiple drivers, hence it has to go. Any idea what it is worth?

Thank you in advance.

[alman72]

been shopping for one just recently. I know if it can be seen running it is certainly worth more. I have only seen old sat around(run when removed!) ones for 300-800 bucks. let me know when you have a price in mind. (DIBS!) I will be in your area weekend of the 29th this month.(hear it/see it)
thanks.
edit-I am sure others will chime in on value. Skills removed one from Ride-Ons subie conversion that sold pretty fast. Also, not sure what the value of the different motors from the years. what would you guess yours is now with the bigger pistons? closer to 1800?

[KentABQ]

I haven't a clue on the value, so I'm no help there.

But I did take a 1.7l engine and add fuel injection to it. And now it runs great. So that may be an easier, quicker, cheaper option than a Subaru swap.

Here's the link if you want to see the process. It starts around page 12...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...t=poor+sap
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1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"

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Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea

Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM

[TomWesty]

Man, if I had a late bay I would jump on that engine. I’m not afraid to pump the accelerator a bit to warm it up.
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[Gregg in the 603]

I would say $1200 would be fair.
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1979 Mexico Beige Westy auto
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[williamM]

got to go with KentPS on this one-

Just finished a conversion on Grey Whale- and was driving my 78 with it, and it will be a turn key deal when finished. Kent has a lot of driving on his and Grey Whale just made Sacramento on it's new install. and headed for SD,Ca

I found the best way to get a good system is to buy up 3 take out from the Samba. Then keep in mind - each take out had a weird gremlin, so your job will be to find that and remove it.

Now you have a good winter system (Thermostat?) and a box of spares.-after it up and running- - use it as a test bed for your spares- so you keep only the good stuff.-- Don't throw ANY thing away- Cores maybe way valuable some day.




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[aeromech]

Hard to say without pictures. I fixed up and sold a T4 a couple years ago for $3k. It had a progressive carb but I was able to show pictures, video, and show a compression test. All important to a buyer. I have a run stand which you probably don’t.
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[alman72]

best case would be to find a buyer before you take it out of the bus, and they can go for a ride

[skills@eurocarsplus]

I forget what ride-on's engine sold for. I want to say about 1500, BUT it came with everything...FI harness, air box, etc etc etc and a good 091 as well

I did a quickie video and a compression test. I think the fact it drove from Canada to Connecticut with no issues was a selling point as well.

gotta remember....regardless it's a used engine. I don't ever want to rip anyone off with unforeseen issues. for all I know, it was it's last trip before it spit a galley plug.

I would say the first 12-1500 should take it. and because I am a cynical asshole.....I wouldn't warranty shit for guy #2. it isn't a CPO audi or anything

cut your losses, cut someone a deal and apply the $$ to your conversion. that is what I do for clients, as well as help broker the sale, load it into a truck etc
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[chicagovw]

Thanks guys,

I would think it is worth more than $12-1500 as rebuilt long blocks from Mofoco and GEX are that or more. Granted this was a top end only rebuild but nothing was skimped on. I did do a video of it and did a compression test on it as well. I can probably set it up to run on a stand, too, as I do have a bellhousing I can use.

Agreed on the FI. Two of our three buses use it and it has been fantastic. I will never understand why anyone would remove it and hang carbs on a stock bus engine in it's place.

I am planning to keep the other buses air cooled. No reason not to. They have hydraulic lifters so maintenance is low and they have enough power for our use, and have proven very reliable. The bus I am doing the conversion on has been reliable too BUT as stated the average guy has issues starting it in the cold, and I don't blame them for not wanting to wait 15 minutes for it to warm up. I also wanted to try the Subaru out for extra hp and for lower emissions. We are keeping full emissions on this conversion. As a green minded company, this can also be some good advertising.

[chicagovw]

Also agreed about not warrantying it. I can put the next buyer in touch with the shop (Midwest Performance) that rebuilt the top end, but I am not planning to be in the middle of all that.

[SGKent]

I agree with Don (Skills) on this. Maybe $1700 if you take someone for a ride around the block before you pull it. There might be one buyer out there at $2500 but are you willing to run the engine in the bus until he/she shows up so you can demo it for him/her? It doesn't matter who built it, FAT was bought out by RIMCO and I have already had multiple people telling me that the work they got back from them wasn't done right the first time. If you want to send it to someone who is known for impeccable detail work, have them go thru it completely and then sell it you might get $4400 after paying them $3000 to go thru it. You indicated that it was a partial rebuild. That really lowers the value too. Another way of saying it - you did a valve job on the engine. So to many of us it is a running core with a recent valve job. Also, and this is a big also - most engine buyers are local or otherwise they figure shipping into their costs to acquire. Calif is a smog state. The only people who can use that engine locally are 1972 - 1975 bay owners. Someone with a 1976 on can't use it because it won't smog. So, that means the buyer may live out of state and have to factor shipping into the purchase price.

[Ride_On]

$1500 sounds right. It was a 2L FI original engine and did come with the whole kit, had Skills' "blessing" and compression tests completed. Plus, the buyer got in touch with me about its history, etc. I was happy to offer up access to our full mechanical history and recent years experience (6-8000 miles annually each of the last 4 years).

You're putting yourself in danger though... you'll love the Subie conversion!

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[airschooled]

Having experienced KentPS' engine before (dual carbs with chokes) and after the fuel injection conversion, I can safely say the 1700cc Type 4 with L-jet FI is the most fun air-cooled VW engine I have ever driven. (And he passed CA smog on the first try!)

I'll be in Chicago this May and June if you'd like any help with a fuel injection 1700cc conversion. I can't say enough good things about the setup.

Robbie
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[chicagovw]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the advice and offers to help!

I love the 2.0 FI engines in our other buses, don't get me wrong. I am planning to keep those air cooled. I decided on doing a Subaru engine with this one mainly because, as mentioned, the guys driving this just want to get in and go. Also wanted to try one out because of the increase in power and decreased emissons-we are a green minded company and this conversion is going to get full emissions controls-something that should also be good from a marketing standpoint.

It is not a put down of the vintage stuff-as I said, we are still running 2.0 FI air cooled in our other buses, which have been stellar in terms of reliability. I had considered a Fitech fuel injection kit for this bus, but after trying various carburators with different degrees of failure, I have just decided to pull the plug on that: the first carbs were CB Performance dual Brosals with chokes which actually worked pretty well, but the linkage bits on the carbs are junk and we had issues with the chokes themselves failing. Next were a set of IDFs which seemed to be too much for the little 1.7 and we were never able to get running quite right, and again proved to be a problem for the average tech to fire up when it was cold. Next was a progressive, which started in the cold but delivered a flat spot, lousy mileage, etc. Finally the Kadrons, which run well enough when warm, but are a real pain to start for the techs here.

I think that whoever comes up with a pair of high quality dual carburators with chokes for these would sell tons of units. Not sure why getting carburators to work truly well has been such a challenge-heck, my 1931 Model A Ford was my only car from 2014-early 2016, was parked outside, and fired up every time with one pull on the manual choke (still 6 volts, all stock!).

Another thing is that it is getting harder and harder to get truly good service around here. There are a few vw shops around, but I have yet to find one that has been able to get the carbs quite right.

[alman72]

I know its a work day, and you have a business to run, but I would love to possibly take a look and listen (and see the fleet) on the 30th
edit-PM sent