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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4421
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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 Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: My first Resto project - 1975 super beetle 1303 |
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| SupBeetle4Zaid wrote: |
| Buggeee wrote: |
As it was explained to me, self etch primer only works well on bare metal, not so well on painted surfaces. It also just seals the metal as a first layer. Eventually, it has to be covered with a topcoat of paint. The two part epoxy primer works well on both bare metal and painted surfaces, but requires an air compressor and spray gun.
I stripped my whole bug to bare metal in my driveway using paint stripper and a power washer. After cleaning it thoroughly, the whole car was bare metal. I spray painted the whole car with about 7 cans of aerosol self etch primer to protect it from flash rusting in the air. Now I will address the body work one section at a time but do not have to worry that the clean metal will rust before I get to painting the car. The next layers will be either sandable primer or epoxy primer, and then paint. I still have to buy an air compressor so I needed to protect it in the meantime.
Bare metal will rust in the air, sometimes in a matter of days. It will get a soft golden glow, and then, with time, worse. Especially where you touch it. If that starts to happen buff it with a scotchbrite pad so it is clean silver again and then primer. |
I Just heard so much praise about epoxy for previously rusted metal and resto projects, when its DTM, but if i cant source it or if its way too epensive ill go with etch. To avoid adhesion issues i wont use areosole, i can rent a compressor for 30 dollars and spray with a cheap gun, i have a traditional siphon-fed gun with a 1.8 tip so it might work, if not ill buy a gravity fed one time use gun as im only priming after stripper, the rest ill leave to the pros with guns n booths. How did you rinse off the stripper without getting flash rust immediately? I plan on rinsing with distilled water and some sort of cheap DIY degreaser as i didnt find an automotive one. |
And I quote from the depths of fear and uncertainty...
| Buggeee wrote: |
After using chemical stripper, I have to make sure its fully removed from the car. To get into the crevices, I cut back the window rubber. (I have new window rubber for after the painting is done).
Then a good bath with Dawn dish washing soap.
I sent a picture of the stripped bug to the person I got it from (an auto body painter) all proud of my accomplishment and my phone started ringing almost right away. "Listen carefully and do exactly as I say!" Apparently if you are going to chemically strip a car you have to act immediately because the moisture in the air goes right to work on it. Sure enough, the next morning (today), some areas of the naked bug were already showing a soft golden hue. So I pushed it out in the driveway when I left for work to let it warm in the sun all day. When I got home, I used 3-M's version of a scotch-brite pad (those green plastic scrubber pads under the kitchen sink) to polish (dry like sanding) it shiny silver again. I then sprayed it with self-etching primer, which bonds to bare metal, to protect all that hard work from natural disaster. I used Rustoleum brand rattle can because I wasn't smart enough to own an air compressor before dumping paint stripper all over my bug. There are a fair amount of runs, drips and errors but I will be addressing all kinds of issues anyway and now its safe and sound for my garage.
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
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SupBeetle4Zaid
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017
Posts: 88
Location: Jordan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: My first Resto project - 1975 super beetle 1303 |
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man that looks so brave, I was thinking wipe water on then wipe it off as many times as needed.
thanks for sharing! so Ill rent the air compressor and spray it after I rinse, dry, and tack.
Ill use a gun according to the paint's tech sheet, and prep as per instructions.
If I use high build primer or a skim coat of bondo on top of that, will I need another primer sealer layer?
I was able to source locally Bondo heavy-duty undercoating rubberized paint and sprayable paint stripper by Jasco, happy about that, thought id share.
Ps: whats special about dawn dish soap? What makes it diffirent for our purposes than any other soap?
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My first restoration ongoing project - 75 super beetle 1303
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SupBeetle4Zaid
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017
Posts: 88
Location: Jordan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:59 am Post subject: Re: My first Resto project - 1975 super beetle 1303 |
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I already posted this on body/paint section but heres the story:
I found local made (national paints) have so many kinds of epoxy mainly made for marine purposes, I called them and they said they have 2k epoxy, at 30 dollars a gallon, I think its pretty cheap..
all the types of epoxy they have are on this link (tech sheets) which one is the one I need for a bug?
http://www.national-paints.com/np/uploads/protective.html
I called the product representative at "national paints" and they have never heard of epoxy being sprayed on a car before so they want me to check which one I need and they would give me epoxy, top coat, and clear coat for free as long as they get to monitor the project so that if it all works out they will market a type of epoxy for automotive uses, can any of you guys point out which of their epoxy primers I should try?
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My first restoration ongoing project - 75 super beetle 1303
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Buggeee
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Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4421
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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SupBeetle4Zaid
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017
Posts: 88
Location: Jordan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: Re: My first Resto project - 1975 super beetle 1303 |
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| Buggeee wrote: |
| SupBeetle4Zaid wrote: |
Ps: whats special about dawn dish soap? What makes it diffirent for our purposes than any other soap? |
I have no idea! Lmao. I was told to do it by the body man. It worked though. 
Congratulations on the paint sponsor you found! If its strong enough for marine use it will definitely protect your bug. |
Haha, yeah everyone uses it but we dont have it here, so if it can be substituted thatd be great.
Thats what i was thinking about the epoxy, must be good enough I just dont know enough about it to know which one to use yet, but its cool of them to sponsor the painting of the car!
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My first restoration ongoing project - 75 super beetle 1303
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SupBeetle4Zaid
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Joined: October 12, 2017
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:35 am Post subject: Re: My first Resto project - 1975 super beetle 1303 |
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Prepped patch panels for paint, will weld them soon and get to removing all paint and repainting.
After chemically stipping the car, dealing with any rust, and neutralizing any chemicals this is the plan (spared you all the degrease tac rag business)
- Scuff with 180 grit (to give tooth)
- Zinc phosphate epoxy primer (2 coats)
- Dry sand (400 - 500 - 600)
For interior:
- Polyurethane top coat (glossy)
For exterior:
- scuff with 80 the spots that need filler
- Fill (FG for deep dents then polyester putty over it)
- Another coat of epoxy (sand)
- High build primer (2 coats)
- Block sand (not sure which grits)
- Repeat HB and block sanding
Then will send to pro for:
- Base coat
- Clear coat
- Color sand and buff
And as it is being sprayed with color and clear, Ill be dealing with chassis.
Does this look right to everyone? Thanks guys for any advice or comments.
Info on zinc phosphate epoxy and Polyurethane topcoat here:
http://www.national-paints.com/np/uploads/protective.html
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Buggeee
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Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4421
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: Re: My first Resto project - 1975 super beetle 1303 |
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| SupBeetle4Zaid wrote: |
- Fill (FG for deep dents then polyester putty over it)
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I was told by a family member who was a auto body man that I should only use filler for shallow imperfections. So... my son and I have started playing with a very inexpensive 7 piece auto body hammer and dolly set similar to this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-20709A-Heavy-Hammer-R...+and+dolly
There are lots of YouTube videos on how to use a hammer and dolly to remove dents, so we watched some and are giving it a go. Basically you push from behind with the dolly while you tap on the surface of the car with the flat hammer. The metal is slowly formed back into the original shape. The idea is to get shallow areas to come within 3mm to 6mm of where it should be and then use a little bit of filler to smooth it out from there.
We are having fun and it seems to be working.
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
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SupBeetle4Zaid
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017
Posts: 88
Location: Jordan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: My first Resto project - 1975 super beetle 1303 |
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hey buggee long time friend.
I have watched some hammer and dolly videos as well and got one hammer and one dolly and fixed some dents here and there, I am yet to become "decent" at it but its better than nothing.
I am not planning on going filler crazy on the car but there is a seriously rippled spot on the far top-right corner of the rear apron that I just KNOW I wont be able to work back to normal, and it will also be covered by the rear bumper so I was just planning on calling it quits after IV done what I can there and putting on some fiberglass filler after Iv sprayed my first 2 coats of epoxy primer.
I really dont want to just cut it off and rent a generator, take my angle grinder, and going to the junk yard again just to end up with one more patch to do (fitting patch panels turned out to be my least favorite thing in bodywork)
I think i can get away with fiberglass filler one one spot thats semi-visable. I hope so at least. what do you think?
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Buggeee
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Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4421
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: My first Resto project - 1975 super beetle 1303 |
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| SupBeetle4Zaid wrote: |
I think i can get away with fiberglass filler one one spot thats semi-visable. I hope so at least. what do you think? |
I think that life is full of compromises, and so is my bug! Balance in everything we do. 
The mighty oak is uncompromising and breaks in the storm. The young bamboo is flexible and survives to see the sunshine.
Be like the bamboo. Slap on the fiberglass to that ripple. Lol.
I have heard of a Native American legend that Navajo weavers would slip one imperfection into their work (like a rug, or blanket) to acknowledge our own imperfection as an act of humility. This apron can be yours!
My bug has many, many imperfections, attesting to my own humility. LMAO.
If you ever wake up in the middle of the night thinking you should have done something else with the apron, just pull it off then and make the next one removable.
(I remain pleasantly amazed that technology allows this conversation between humans on other sides of the planet).
_________________
1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
| Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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Buggeee
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Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4421
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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SupBeetle4Zaid
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017
Posts: 88
Location: Jordan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:40 am Post subject: Re: My first Resto project - 1975 super beetle 1303 |
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Your absolutely right, I can always go back to my apron and work on it. If it looks fine i will never get sleepless over it though. I will be the bamboo.
I admire your wisdom, and I will use your native American legend a lot in life, most certainly at work!
I sometimes wonder how ignorant I would have been if it werent for the unbelievable access to people and information courtesy of the internet, I have learnt so much here. I would have never thought id be able to come this far with my car just through the help of the community here.
Im glad you were inspired by my hammer and dolly, I am still too novice to understand why there are sets with so many shapes as mine seem enough for now. Thank you for the advice and input its really appreciated!
Zaid
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SupBeetle4Zaid
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