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Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

Wow a kindred spirit that can recognize the advantage of using professional tooling rather than chinese dime store crap. Here’s a few pics of real tools with calibration stickers and the factory cases.

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Sharp64
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

OMG! I just got tool shamed! I must run to a mod and cry like a little girl Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

Sharp64 wrote:
OMG! I just got tool shamed! I must run to a mod and cry like a little girl Laughing Laughing Laughing


You still bucking for promotion to hall monitor I see despite your denials. Dude it’s obvious. Very Happy
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TDCTDI
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Sharp64 wrote:
OMG! I just got tool shamed! I must run to a mod and cry like a little girl Laughing Laughing Laughing


You still bucking for promotion to hall monitor I see despite your denials. Dude it’s obvious. Very Happy

We all know that you're secretly vying for a Mod position ZF, you just don't want any competition. Laughing
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Last edited by TDCTDI on Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sharp64
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Sharp64 wrote:
OMG! I just got tool shamed! I must run to a mod and cry like a little girl Laughing Laughing Laughing


You still bucking for promotion to hall monitor I see despite your denials. Dude it’s obvious. Very Happy


Still nope! I would be a really poor hall monitor as I'd be easily bought, let all my friends skate by without a second thought and promote my interests every chance I had..... oh wait... Laughing Laughing

To be on topic and not get locked, I will say that I think a good rule of thumb is this.. If you are planning to do this long term and can afford mid or higher end tools, get them or as suggested look for decent used ones at a garage sale. Of course doing so requires you educate yourself as to what constitutes "good quality". However, if you are on a budget and only plan to use these a few time a year, cheap Chinese toys as ZF calls them will work in a pinch until you can afford to invest in higher end tools. My more expensive one that I have was still under $100 and the only time I use it is to tighten my lugnuts and once to torque a gland nut. Other than that, it sits in its case set to the lowest setting. And I've had it almost 2 years now.

I use the cheaper HF ones more often and I probably should step up at some point and buy a nicer one.
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Last edited by Sharp64 on Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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busman78
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

A decade ago wanted one of these Warren & Brown Deflecting Beam Torque Wrenches but a bit pricey, hard to justify when you only do a few engines a year.

http://wbtools.com.au/products/deflecting-beams/deflecting-beam-torque-wrenches/
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Da TOW'D
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

busman78 wrote:
A decade ago wanted one of these Warren & Brown Deflecting Beam Torque Wrenches but a bit pricey, hard to justify when you only do a few engines a year.

http://wbtools.com.au/products/deflecting-beams/deflecting-beam-torque-wrenches/


I've got 3 W&B torque wrenches 3/8" +1/2" +1" drive
dual signal the pin pops out you can see and hear the pin when the torque is reached
The 3/8" drive excellent for accurate light torque applications
the 1/2" drive I have a Snap On ratcheting adapter on it and use just about every day
On the 1" I have a 3/4" reducer- great for axle nuts and flywheel gland nuts

I like them a lot
cheers
Hank
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busman78
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

I am jealous of your W&B's, course if I run into one priced disgustingly low I will bring it home with me, even with six torque wrenches now there is always room for something odd to joint the pack
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Da TOW'D
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

Like Spring around here today
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

3/8" goes from 0-180 inch pounds 20nm.
1/2" 20-220 ft. lbs.
I" 200 ft.l bs to 750 ft. lbs.

handy when you need them
Hank
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pyrOman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

FWIW & FYI... This I've learned and known for ages since precision instrument calibration is what I do for a living, though only for another 7 days and I'm done with that! Razz

As a general rule torque wrenches are not deemed "accurate" in the first 15% to 20% of their range, whatever range that'd be. Some are good from end to end but it is not recommended to say torque something at 10lb-ft using a 100lb-ft wrench.

In my over 30 years experience the "preferred" type is the dial or beam types. They are most accurate in that you will bring it right up to the desired torque since you are looking at the scale as you go. Using the "click" type is okay but unless you are very good on the "feel", you will more often than not over torque past the desired setting. Reason being that as you are pulling on it once it clicks you are still pulling just a bit more! I often have the end users here at work try it for themselves using my torque tester and they are usually quite surprised to see this.

Now on that note, preferring the dial is okay for mostly lower torque settings since when applying higher torque it is often not practical to read a dial, as has been mentioned already.

Finally, the digitals are really the best since not only can you read it as you go but most have settings with "alarms" when you reach the setting thus giving you the "feel" needed. I have one that even has a yellow light when getting closer and then a red light when the point is reached.

Note: Beam types, which include digitals, always return to zero when not in use. If you were to store it at say half the load, it would stress the beam and eventually take a "set" or "bend". For the same reason it is why it's recommended to set the "click" types back to its lowest setting before storing, since the torqueing "element" is a precision spring and reacts the same as a beam does under stress for a long period of time.

Hope any of that crap helps some. Cool

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

nice setup
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TDCTDI
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

Da TOW'D wrote:
Like Spring around here today
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

3/8" goes from 0-180 inch pounds 20nm.
1/2" 20-220 ft. lbs.
I" 200 ft.l bs to 750 ft. lbs.

handy when you need them
Hank

I know that Canada gets a lot of ice & snow, but why do you need to test the torque on the wiper arms? Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

the big bruiser is leaning on the lip of the roof

Hank
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

Just showing off that his "TORQUE WRENCH" is bigger than your "torque wrench"
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

busman78 wrote:
Just showing off that his "TORQUE WRENCH" is bigger than your "torque wrench"

As long as it still works when you need it to...
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GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


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Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
busman78 wrote:
Just showing off that his "TORQUE WRENCH" is bigger than your "torque wrench"

As long as it still works when you need it to...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Not bragging but mine's a 5 foot long 600 Lb-Ft strap-on, er, Snap-On! Embarassed
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Wow a kindred spirit that can recognize the advantage of using professional tooling rather than chinese dime store crap. Here’s a few pics of real tools with calibration stickers and the factory cases.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Don't laugh..... I am a torque wrench pig myself as well....but guess what....many, many, MANY formal torque wrench comparison tests have actually found that damn Harbor Freight "Pittsburgh" brand of torque wrench to be JUST as accurate ...and even more accurate ...than some of the more expensive brands (not the very professional ones).

I am notsuggesting buying cheap Chinese torque wrenches....but just saying...if you need a reasonable torque wrench for short term use....there is no reason being on a tight budget should stop you.

Here is just one of the numerous tests that included the HF wrench over the years.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1304-torque-wrench-testing/


Here is my newish inch pound torque wrench for bearing preload adjusting. I love this wrench!

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670414&highlight=seekonk

Now...that being said...the Harbor Freight wrench has POS build quality and will not STAY accurate very long.
And....from what I have seen it wears enough at the beam pivot and the gears and handle bushing.... that its a little finicky to recalibrate accurately.

But...at an average cost of $30-40 per direction for recalibration services for most torque tools....just use it for 3 months and throw it in the recycling cart and buy another one Laughing

I spent years with manufacturer whose product required the use of a torque wrench all day, every day. We bought and sold torque wrenches. About 1500-2000 per year on average. We were constantly testing as many brands of mid-level torque wrench as we could.

All of ours were custom made to our specs by Proto (for a few years) and then later Sturtevant-Richmont. We made ours to a max 75 ft, lbs range (precisely so that they would not get used on much else than this product) and they had a finer gear tooth pattern with a double pawl and specially hardened teeth. This is because a typical mid-sized client shop using this product used their wrench for an average of about 1200 torque cycles per day at 55 ft lbs.

And that being said....

Many manufacturers quote a re-calibration interval of 10,000 clicks. Now....being that no one actually counts their clicks....the torque wrench manufactuers have worked this out to an average number of weeks/months for different types of businesses....engine builders, tire shops, assembly lines etc.
Some industrial assembly lines have to recalibrate WEEKLY. Others like most tire shops...need calibration MONTHLY.

In our clients case....the process was not that sensitive. Your torque could wdrop down to a minimum of 45 ft lbs with no slippage issues and increase up to maximum of 65 ft lbs with no part breakage issues...55 ft lbs being the safe average.
Through studies we did ....this worked out for a small shop of about 400-600 cycles per day of about 9-12 months before recalibration was needed....and a medium shop six months...and a large shop 3 months.

The difference being that yes...click cycles will weaken the spring causing the need for recalibration....but not that much that fast. For instance...our Sturtevant and Proto torque wrenches really only lost about 2-4 flt lbs in 600-800 cycle a day shop over 6 months.

Thats a safety issue in a tire shop...and a failure issue in an engine assembly line. Not a big deal for what we were doing.

What we found...and so has EVERY torque wrench manufacturer in the world...that causes the most wrench variation and rapid need for recalibration....is leaving the dial on click type wrenches...turned up to a high torque setting. It cuts the calibration life in HALF.

To preserve the calibration of your torque wrench...you should turn the setting back down to around 10 ft. pounds when you are done using it.

We found during testing that a torque wrench set at 55 ft lbs....even when brand new with "0" cycles on it at all.....can lose 10 ft lbs of calibration within 4-6 months.

Ray
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

Ever since I obtained the inch pound torque wrench, my leaks at the oil drips drain area have subsided. I never tightened them enough.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
....many, many, MANY formal torque wrench comparison tests have actually found that damn Harbor Freight "Pittsburgh" brand of torque wrench to be JUST as accurate ...and even more accurate ...than some of the more expensive brands (not the very professional ones).

I am notsuggesting buying cheap Chinese torque wrenches....but just saying...if you need a reasonable torque wrench for short term use....there is no reason being on a tight budget should stop you.

Here is just one of the numerous tests that included the HF wrench over the years.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1304-torque-wrench-testing/


I actually have FOUR HF click type torque wrenches: 1/2 drive, two of 3/8 drive (keep one in my convertible trunk), and one of 1/4 drive.


gt1953 wrote:
Ever since I obtained the inch pound torque wrench, my leaks at the oil drips drain area have subsided. I never tightened them enough.


Using the HF torque wrench, I found that I hadn't torqued my #2 spark plug insert/spark plug enough.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: torque wrench needed Reply with quote

when it comes to the right size ft lb torque wrench, what is the lowest setting you have had to use?

In the Muir book it mentions needing a wrench that measures 0-250. But how close to zero do you actually find yourself going?
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