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Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2017
Posts: 47
Location: Portland, Or
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 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| Can you post a video of this happening? |
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SRP1
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007
Posts: 4340
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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It's either a serious end play problem, or its hanging up on the starter.
Pull the starter, the try to turn the crank. |
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Old Green Buggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| Bock wrote: |
| Is this a new engine or does it have some miles on it..or is it new to you? |
I’ve had this engine for about 2 years. I replaced the top end not that long ago. Pistons cylinders and redid the heads. I could turn it over by hand after the new parts. The valves have been adjusted after the new parts. I changed the oil the other day and I couldn’t turn the pulley like normal. I’d say it has about 4K miles on it since the new top end. Thanks |
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David_nc_72std
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2015
Posts: 841
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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If you jack up one rear wheel, put the transmission in gear, and turn the engine by rotating the tire by hand can you turn it more than the 15 degrees?
Seems really odd that it gets stuck turning the crankshaft from the pulley end, but doesn't get stuck when the starter turns it from the flywheel end. Any possibility there is a problem with the solenoid or gear on the starter, and it is jamming against the flywheel? |
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Old Green Buggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| Pruneman99 wrote: |
Is the clunk audible or only felt?
If it's audible have someone bump the stop point while you use a mechanics stethoscope to narrow down where it's coming from. i.e trans, bell housing, engine etc |
It is audible and felt. I stethoscope styled it all over the engine with it running. Couldn’t hear anything unusual anywhere. I didn’t have anyone around to help me so I couldn’t try it without it running. |
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jeffrey8164 
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3817
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| Old Green Buggy wrote: |
| Ok guys. I’m mechanically inclined. I know all the basics and all that. I’m not new to the game. I’ve put a wrench on the crank bolt. I’m big and strong. 6’3” and 200lbs. It’s not compression. I’ve always been able to turn it over easily in the past. It’s not something simple that everyone has been through a million times. It truly is a mechanical mystery. I’ve talked to a bunch of well known knowledgeable VW guys. It doesn’t make sense. I’m looking for the one who’s been through the same thing as me. Thanks again. |
I'm having that happen to me as well but I've found that when mine clunks I can back it up a little and then it will go. Mine isn't end play either and the motor runs or more accurately did run. It's been sitting in my garage for a number of years and I'm about to begin a refresh.
The only thing I can think of on my end is 1: My oil pump has worn a groove in the cam gear(which it has) and that is causing a point of contention or 2: I didn't pay attention to the arrows on the pistons and this is somehow causing a bind in the rod or the pin.
The other day I was trying to figure out my Ring and Pinion and was turning the motor by hand and ran into the same thing you did. I got out a ratchet and socket and turned it that way which is how I heard the clunk and felt the resistance.
Since I'm adding displacement in my refresh (from a 1914 to a 2276) I'll see if I can shed some light on it as I take it apart. |
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Old Green Buggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| SRP1 wrote: |
It's either a serious end play problem, or its hanging up on the starter.
Pull the starter, the try to turn the crank. |
I thought about the starter hanging up. I’ll pull it out and see. I loosened all 4 engine mount nuts and moved the engine back a bit to see if it would spin and it wouldn’t. It was the same. So, I just pushed it back together and tightened it up. Then, I drove it to my girlfriend’s house. Where I’m at now about to go to sleep. It’s crazy. I’ll probably have nightmares about it tonight. Hahaha. Thanks |
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Old Green Buggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| David_nc_72std wrote: |
If you jack up one rear wheel, put the transmission in gear, and turn the engine by rotating the tire by hand can you turn it more than the 15 degrees?
Seems really odd that it gets stuck turning the crankshaft from the pulley end, but doesn't get stuck when the starter turns it from the flywheel end. Any possibility there is a problem with the solenoid or gear on the starter, and it is jamming against the flywheel? |
I haven’t jacked it up and spun the wheel to see yet. What I did do is, I put it in 4th gear and rocked it backwards and it did move more than the 15 degrees. Weird. I thought the starter the whole time. But, it doesn’t make any noise and isn’t getting really hot. I figure it would be smoking if it was turning at high rpms for hours at a time. Do you think it’s possible that the bendix is staying engaged only when the power is off of the starter? Like only when it’s sitting? I tried to turn it over with the key on and it is the same. No go. Thanks |
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Old Green Buggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| jeffrey8164 wrote: |
| Old Green Buggy wrote: |
| Ok guys. I’m mechanically inclined. I know all the basics and all that. I’m not new to the game. I’ve put a wrench on the crank bolt. I’m big and strong. 6’3” and 200lbs. It’s not compression. I’ve always been able to turn it over easily in the past. It’s not something simple that everyone has been through a million times. It truly is a mechanical mystery. I’ve talked to a bunch of well known knowledgeable VW guys. It doesn’t make sense. I’m looking for the one who’s been through the same thing as me. Thanks again. |
I'm having that happen to me as well but I've found that when mine clunks I can back it up a little and then it will go. Mine isn't end play either and the motor runs or more accurately did run. It's been sitting in my garage for a number of years and I'm about to begin a refresh.
The only thing I can think of on my end is 1: My oil pump has worn a groove in the cam gear(which it has) and that is causing a point of contention or 2: I didn't pay attention to the arrows on the pistons and this is somehow causing a bind in the rod or the pin.
The other day I was trying to figure out my Ring and Pinion and was turning the motor by hand and ran into the same thing you did. I got out a ratchet and socket and turned it that way which is how I heard the clunk and felt the resistance.
Since I'm adding displacement in my refresh (from a 1914 to a 2276) I'll see if I can shed some light on it as I take it apart. |
Sounds interesting. Someone told me that with an aftermarket cam the bolts can back out and hit the oil pump. I listened to the area around the oil pump and couldn’t hear anything hitting anything. Just sounds smooth all over. No strange noises. No banging. Nothing. Smooth as a Swiss watch. They also told me I can get to the cam bolts through the oil pump and tighten them up. I just changed the oil and there was no metal in it. It was black. But, no metal. Just a lil bit on the magnet on the drain plug. That’s normal though. Thanks. Any help is appreciated and let us know what you find.
How far will yours turn over by hand? More than 15 degrees? Did it make any weird noises while it was running? |
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Pruneman99
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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I was thinking starter too but I figured if it's hanging that bad, it wouldn't work right or make a holy hell of a noise when the engine started.
But it's worth a shot. Strange problem for sure. |
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Old Green Buggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| Pruneman99 wrote: |
I was thinking starter too but I figured if it's hanging that bad, it wouldn't work right or make a holy hell of a noise when the engine started.
But it's worth a shot. Strange problem for sure. |
I’m gonna pull the starter off tomorrow and see. I’ll let you guys know what happens. I figured it would make noise too. It doesn’t. I stethoscope styled it too. Sounds fine when the car is running. Not loud or vibrating at all. Just sounds like a starter would sitting there and the engine running. This bug might have some herbie in it. Hahaha. I love it though. Great lil car. Thanks |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7544
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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Meh.
Either run it till it blows or take it apart..
_________________
Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3442
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| This is like the fake news. Nothing here |
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VW_Jimbo
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9966
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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How about removing the spark plugs and turning the engine over. Will it turn over then?
If not, pull the rocker arms. Now does it turn over?
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31374
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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I'm thinking to jack up the rear of the VW (tires off the ground), handbrake off, and put in neutral and try to turn engine with the wrench - just a hunch, and easy to try. I wonder if the transmission is hung up with the engine.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Old Green Buggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| I'm thinking to jack up the rear of the VW (tires off the ground), handbrake off, and put in neutral and try to turn engine with the wrench - just a hunch, and easy to try. I wonder if the transmission is hung up with the engine. |
I jacked up the rear end and it turns over perfectly. What do you think is jamming up? The pressure plate? Thanks. Now we are getting somewhere. Cool |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31374
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| Old Green Buggy wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| I'm thinking to jack up the rear of the VW (tires off the ground), handbrake off, and put in neutral and try to turn engine with the wrench - just a hunch, and easy to try. I wonder if the transmission is hung up with the engine. |
I jacked up the rear end and it turns over perfectly. What do you think is jamming up? The pressure plate? Thanks. Now we are getting somewhere. Cool |
I had a feeling this could be a possibility. Does a rear wheel turn when you turn the engine with a wrench? What if you pull on the handbrake firmly and then try to turn the engine with a wrench?
Be patient, we need more information; at this point gland nut bearing, clutch disc/pressure plate, transmission could be involved.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Old Green Buggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Old Green Buggy wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| I'm thinking to jack up the rear of the VW (tires off the ground), handbrake off, and put in neutral and try to turn engine with the wrench - just a hunch, and easy to try. I wonder if the transmission is hung up with the engine. |
I jacked up the rear end and it turns over perfectly. What do you think is jamming up? The pressure plate? Thanks. Now we are getting somewhere. Cool |
I had a feeling this could be a possibility. Does a rear wheel turn when you turn the engine with a wrench? What if you pull on the handbrake firmly and then try to turn the engine with a wrench?
Be patient, we need more information; at this point gland nut bearing, clutch disc/pressure plate, transmission could be involved. |
I went out to try to turn it over again and it won’t budge. I was waiting for it to cool off so I could adjust the valves. It’s still in the air and won’t budge. Even weirder to me now. Thanks |
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Old Green Buggy
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Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| I went back out and turned it over with the key. It turns over by hand again. Just now it’s hard to turn. The wheels don’t move when I’m turning it over in neutral or in gear by hand. The wheels do turn if I turn it over with the key in gear. Thanks |
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Old Green Buggy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2018
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? |
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| It doesn’t make a difference if the e brake is on or not. Thanks |
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