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Maybe you can help me solve a mystery?
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Old Green Buggy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

The wheels spin in neutral also when using the key to turn it over. Do you think the starter is hanging up? Thanks
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

I'd guess something in the bell housing. It would be concerning enough for me to pull the engine if pulling the starter didn't reveal anything.

Or if you have an inspection camera you could pull the starter and push the camera in the starter hole to try to see if you can tell what's going on.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

What crankshaft pulley does it have . If its aluminum I've seen them digging in to the engine case and into the sheet metal .
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

Old Green Buggy wrote:
I jacked up the rear end and it turns over perfectly. What do you think is jamming up? The pressure plate? Thanks. Now we are getting somewhere. Cool


So is the above true? With engine cool, or with engine hot? Did you pull the spark plugs to try?

If the engine will not turn with wrench with the above, I think next step for me would be to pull a rocker arm off, and then try turning it. Then pull the other rocker off. This would help isolate whether the hang up is within the case/pistons or with a valve.
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Old Green Buggy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

I adjusted the #1 and #2 valves. #1 exhaust valve was perfect. The rest were a lil loose. Then it started raining.
The engine is still hard to turn over. I ended up using the starter to bump it over and got it to tdc and bdc by hand. It’s just choosing when it wants to be free and when it wants to stick. Everything in the valve train looks good. No binding. Free movement. I think it’s somewhere behind the engine. I don’t think it’s internal. I’m thinking something like clutch, pressure plate or starter. Thanks
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

Old Green Buggy wrote:
The wheels spin in neutral also when using the key to turn it over. Do you think the starter is hanging up? Thanks



The trans is still moving even in neutral so the wheels will move, but not like they are in gear. If you have driving force, then the trans is not in neutral. The starter not retracting isn't related to the wheels moving.

Have you removed the spark plugs, rockers, & starter and tried to turn the engine over yet? If those don't eliminate the issue and you think it's in the clutch/flywheel area then it's probably time to pull the engine out.
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chrisflstf
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

This makes no sense:
Quote:
The wheels don’t move when I’m turning it over in neutral or in gear by hand. The wheels do turn if I turn it over with the key in gear. Thanks


Loose flywheel, broken crank, broken gland nut. Those all make noise. Maybe loose nut behind the steering wheel, check that
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

At face value there is no logical way to explain how one cannot turn the engine over with a wrench but the starter will turn it over just fine.
As I said before my little 1915 is doing the same sort of thing but I'm more inclined to think it is either cam thrust/cam gear loading and unloading or a wrist pin/rod bind.
I can turn past the bind with a 30mm socket on the crank pulley. It is a noticeable clunk and bind but with a little more force it turns past it until I back off the ratchet and it will clunk and bind again.
If a valve was hitting a piston the engine would be destroyed by now.
If the starter solenoid was sticking, the starter would be destroyed by now.
We may just be experiencing normal behavior.
I started a teardown today so I'll experiment some and report back. I'll make note of where in the degree wheel it happens as that may provide some clues.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

You are feeling the spring and valve interaction as they move, open and close. And compression. Nothing else
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

I've seen more than 1 engine where the #1 main bearing was so loose in the case, that the entire bearing and crank moved, and the crank cheek bound on the main bearing webs. It ran "OK", but it would bind when rotating by hand.
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65calvw
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

Like Pruneman99, I vote excessive end play.
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65calvw
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

Like Pruneman99, I vote excessive end play.
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Old Green Buggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

chrisflstf wrote:
You are feeling the spring and valve interaction as they move, open and close. And compression. Nothing else


Not at all. A child can turn one of these engines over by hand. I’m a man. Not one of these new school wussies. Carry on.
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Old Green Buggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

65calvw wrote:
Like Pruneman99, I vote excessive end play.


This engine has no excessive endplay. It is perfect. The crank doesn’t move. Thanks
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Old Green Buggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
I've seen more than 1 engine where the #1 main bearing was so loose in the case, that the entire bearing and crank moved, and the crank cheek bound on the main bearing webs. It ran "OK", but it would bind when rotating by hand.


I hope that’s not what’s happening. It runs great. It makes no noises. Sounds like a Swiss watch. That’s why this is so weird. It has no symptoms other than not wanting to turn over by hand. And it seems now that it chooses when it wants to be free. I spun it over by hand yesterday over and over. It was smooth as silk. Then, it got hard to turn again. Thanks
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calvinater
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

Can you measure endplay at all ,should be .003” min ,zero endplay would not be good.
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Old Green Buggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

calvinater wrote:
Can you measure endplay at all ,should be .003” min ,zero endplay would not be good.


yes it’s been measured and it’s correct. Not the issue at all. Thanks
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

Old Green Buggy wrote:

I jacked up the rear end and it turns over perfectly.


Old Green Buggy wrote:
I went back out and turned it over with the key. It turns over by hand again. Just now it’s hard to turn.


Your problem(s) sound a lot like you've been leaving your transmission in gear with the parking brake on.
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Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

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Old Green Buggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

Stripped66 wrote:
Old Green Buggy wrote:

I jacked up the rear end and it turns over perfectly.


Old Green Buggy wrote:
I went back out and turned it over with the key. It turns over by hand again. Just now it’s hard to turn.


Your problem(s) sound a lot like you've been leaving your transmission in gear with the parking brake on.


I do leave it in gear with the brake on when it’s parked. Doesn’t everyone? Can that cause problems? That would be news to me. Interesting. Thanks
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: Maybe you can help me solve a mystery? Reply with quote

Old Green Buggy wrote:
Stripped66 wrote:
Old Green Buggy wrote:

I jacked up the rear end and it turns over perfectly.


Old Green Buggy wrote:
I went back out and turned it over with the key. It turns over by hand again. Just now it’s hard to turn.


Your problem(s) sound a lot like you've been leaving your transmission in gear with the parking brake on.


I do leave it in gear with the brake on when it’s parked. Doesn’t everyone? Can that cause problems? That would be news to me. Interesting. Thanks


It can cause the exact problems you've described when you're attempting to rotate the engine by hand to check your valve lash...
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66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
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