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titan3c
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

When I was installing rear shocks sometime back, I lost one of the spacer sleeves, and I installed the shock without it with intent to do it later.

Now is later, and was preparing to make one, but would like to make sure I make it the right size---- tube dia, and length? Help Bob
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

Hello Bob!
Is this the spacer for the bottom eye or the spacer that some shocks use on the top threaded part between the two donuts?

Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

on the top between the donuts. It's about an inch long. It's no 13 in the Haynes breakdown of the rear shock nomenclature. Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
on the top between the donuts. It's about an inch long. It's no 13 in the Haynes breakdown of the rear shock nomenclature. Bob


Depending on the shock and its bushing design....some aftermarket shocks do not use one.

The bushing is designed as a limiter betweeen the bottom steel washer and top steel washer so that the rubber donuts cannot be over crushed.
The diameter ai csn give you but the length is critical. Too long.....and you get hammering ratyles and lousey handling. Too short and in not si many miles the rubber donuts get beat to death.

Which shock are you using? Some of the KYB....if memory serves...used donuts with a faised inner rubber boss that fits into the hole in the chassis so its rubber face to rubber face.

I have an original KYB shock set. Let me look in the hardware package and I will also check the parts book to see if the tube has a dimension. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

I put KYB shocks on, and without that sleeve I notice in tightening I'm crushing the donuts, and squeezing them out sideways. So I backed it off, and now the shock is a little loose and on some bumps will rattle.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
I put KYB shocks on, and without that sleeve I notice in tightening I'm crushing the donuts, and squeezing them out sideways. So I backed it off, and now the shock is a little loose and on some bumps will rattle.


Yep....from my memory of KYB....they actually needed the spacer sleeve but did not include them in some kits over the years.

Let me pull out my NOS set and see if it has spacers.

I remember the issue with setting up the KYB shocks in the rear with no spacer sleeve. Just like you noted.

What I had to do....is put the top bushing, washer and nut on.....use the damn shock holding socket to hold the rod while I tighten the nut with a crows foot socket.....just get it tight....and then bounce the rear of the car up and down while looking into the little well ...through the back windshield at the bushing and washer to see if they had excessive up and down or side to side movement...and then tighten some more.

AND...once you get it there...you need to also install a Jamb nut to make sure the locking nut does not back off. Back in the 80s...and into the 90s...they included a nut and Jamb nut in the hardware kit. Later...they went to a crappy self locking nut...and then back to a single non self locking nut in the hardware kits Rolling Eyes .

Let me see what I can find later today. I do remember though...the first time I installed either Monroe or KYB rear shocks...and used the new bushings with the original equipment spacer....the new donuts were either smaller in diameter or thickness....making the spacer too long.

Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

Yep I had the sleeve for the other side and all worked well. Don't know how I lost the other sleeve. I thought it may have fallen down in there in the recess around the shock mount. But I went over it good with a magnet, and found nothing. bob
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

So I have two KYG KG5531 rear shocks in the box. They are so old now they are risky. I pulled the hardware pack out of one.....and.... Crying or Very sad ...yep...produced in that era with no sleeve provided. This one had the two rubber bushings, the two thick washers ad thick nut and a jamb nut.

The hardware pack was missing from the other one. I cannot remember if it came without it (these were closeouts) or if I scavenged it to use elsewhere.

Sorry to say....that you may have to pull the other side loose to check and measure.

Its a little pain...but not a big one. Keep the car on the ground and pull the top nut, rubber bushing and washer off....and keep a magnet handy... Wink .

If you can measure one and tell me the size...I have bags of small tubular bushings like that that most probably came from shocks....I just do not know from which....and I have numerous sizes.

I can send you one if I have it. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

Ok but I'll do another magnet search down in there again first. Still can't figure what happened to it.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Ok but I'll do another magnet search down in there again first. Still can't figure what happened to it.


Oh....man....that hole you are speaking of?.....that goes down anx makes a 90° turn toward the front of the car .....and into a body cavity that extends a distance forward. Sometimes you drop something in here snd it stays close to the hole.....and you can get it out with a magnet.
Other things....once it rolls forward.....it's gone...never to appear again. I know I haveca short 14mm socket and a speciality shock stud holding socket that disappeared into mine!
Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

Yep and I think that's what happened to the missing sleeve. While we are on the subject I have another question. I notice on Page 126 of the Hayne's manual in the breakdown of the shock it shows the sleeve upside down instead of cupping around the donut. What's the reason for this? Bb
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

Upps I ment to say the washer(item #12) is upside down. Bob
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

Because....that is the CORRECT way that these large washers are supposed to be installed.

You find this on ALL donut style bushings clamped in that configuration....especially if they are supposed to have any range of motion for the shaft they are on.

If you want to see this in action in other places....crawl under the front end and look at the diagonal arm donuts. Notice that the flange on the diagonal rod.....also called the radius arm.....points AWAY from the donut. This because as that arm changes angle.....it pinches/cokpresses that donut so hard that it easily doubles or triples the spring pressure of that donut.....and pushes the shaft sideways....which can crack the centering ring bushings.
Or if you made the mistake I did many years ago....of installing uretjan donuts on the front radius arm....which are about 5x more spring rebound than the original donuts....one cold morning....it literally snapped the steel eye socket of the subframe. That sucked!

On the rear suspension....the sway bar outer links have the same issue snd also have their flange washer curving away from the donut.

Now....that being said....they should be a little less angle change of the rear shock rod.....but there is some. The original donut washers curve away from the bushings.

But....its possible that if KYB is using smaller OD donuts....they may have wanted the washers flipped. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

Just now got around to pulling the sleeve out and it's 1 3/16 in length, and looks like 3/8 ID--fits easily around the shaft.

I discovered in my experimenting and improvising habits the following: A sleeve can be improvised out of fuel line hose. Just cut a section the correct length, and works fine, only it fits snug on the shaft. The OD looks to be the same as the metal sleeve. It can be pressed onto the donuts with a little wd40 help. Is this a good or bad idea? Bob
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Just now got around to pulling the sleeve out and it's 1 3/16 in length, and looks like 3/8 ID--fits easily around the shaft.

I discovered in my experimenting and improvising habits the following: A sleeve can be improvised out of fuel line hose. Just cut a section the correct length, and works fine, only it fits snug on the shaft. The OD looks to be the same as the metal sleeve. It can be pressed onto the donuts with a little wd40 help. Is this a good or bad idea? Bob


Do you mean steel fuel line tubing?.....or rubber fuel hose?

It needs to be steel if you are using it for a spacer.

This spacer does two things depending on how big the holes in the donuts are.

1. They make the threaded stud larger in diameter so that the donuts cannot squirm side to side.

2. They act as a stop or limiter...so that the nut cannot be tightened down so far that it squeezes the donut out flat.

Looking at the new and old donuts I have again I realize now why KYB left out the spacer.....which is only good in one reapect. The new hardware set....which came without spacer tubes.....the hole in the donuts is a fairly tight fit on the threaded stud so in that respect....lateral location wise......there is no need for a spacer.

But.....the bad thing is that you can now tighten the nut down too tight and squish the donuts.
Flipping the flanged washers over so that the curved edge is toward the donuts can help this some....as it allows the donuts to load upan mind of stay within the confines of the flanges.....but is not ideal.

If memory serves.....when they first changed the hardware package, got rid of the spacer and made the holes in the donuts a tight fit on the threads.....they gave you two nuts for each shock. You tighten the first nut down to the right level and them screw on the second nut as a locknut.......and as you can imagine.....in the space we have to work in a type 4.....thats a big pain in the butt.

If you have the donuts with the large hole and need a spacer.....and want to use the fuel hose just to keep the donuts centered.....you will have to be careful on how tight you tighten them down.

From your measurements I will see if I have a spare spacer.
Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

I have checked the local hdw stores for a sleeve this size, but nothing found. I haven't checked at Lowe's or Home Depot yet because they are some distance from me. If you have one I'll pay the mailing. Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

Success: I went fishing with a magnet in the caverns below the top shock absorber connection, and retrieved my missing sleeve. A fishermans luck. Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: spacer sleeve rear shocks Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Success: I went fishing with a magnet in the caverns below the top shock absorber connection, and retrieved my missing sleeve. A fishermans luck. Bob


Very Happy

Ray
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