What is the adhesive used to attach body panels-inner support?

[Bulli Klinik]

On the inner structures of our Vanagons, there is some type of adhesive which bonds the outer skins to inner supports.

It can be seen on the lower left of this photo:

Mine is dried out and crumbling. Is this some sort of silicone adhesive? Panel adhesive? I imagine that is should be somewhat flexible. What did the factory use?

Thanks!
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I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[vanagon_dan]

I used 3M panel adhesive. Its been a few months, but so far it works well.

[Bulli Klinik]

I was leaning toward the panel bond as well, though I'm not sure if it should be somewhat flexible, like a silicone adhesive.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[djkeev]

Back away from "silicone" adhesives.

They rarely withstand the test of time.

Think about it for a second, silicone, a product developed to be slick, slide and not stick.
Made into an adhesive?

Not only does it fail, it contaminates the surfaces with silicone so NOTHING ELSE WILL STICK TO IT.

Heineous stuff it is, whoever marketed this crap to the American public did a marvelous job!!

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[Wellington]

Is that not seam sealer?

[chompy]

Proper seam sealer is made of Epoxy or (poly)Urethane.
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'81 Westfalia Subaru EJ22
Manual Transmission

[IdahoDoug]

My concern would be how close to secure the panel to that brace? If you press it tightly against the brace, you may realize a week from now your van when its all shiny has a bizarre looking shallow depression on the side from this on a hot day. Or is the gap supposed to be filled with the sealant simply as a way to keep the sheetmetal from thrumming and vibrating without pulling the sheetmetal against it? Or a third option has some age related flexing happened such that it WAS supposed to be against the brace, but NOW it will make the exterior sheetmetal look weird. Dunno. I'd want to clarify that before making the decision to secure it. It's not a structural connection - looks to be more of an "anti-noise" move for a floating connection allowing temp related movements.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Bulli Klinik]

You and I share the same concerns, Doug. There appears to be a slight gap from the brace to the skin. I know that most of the material in mine is dried and detached.

The seam sealer used throughout the Bus is white and pliable. This stuff is black and at least for now, dried out and hard.

I want to bond the panel prior to doing any blocking. Maybe it is an early form of panel bond?
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[alaskadan]

We had a thread about this some where years back. Mine are like that too. Haven't done anything with them. I too think flexibility is key here. I thought I'd probably use something like
3m 5200 in small blobs, getting all of the old crap completely out and cleaned off was what likely made me loose interest.

[Steve M.]

Build up sealent in the void to fill the space, but clean it with brake cleaner which leaves no residue of cleaner so there is bare surface for the sealent to stick to.
3M 5200 is a very permanent sealent.
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[djkeev]

3M 560 is your product.

Polyurethane Adhesive Sealant

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-prod...amp;rt=rud

Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[zuhandenheit]

I used 3m panel bond 08115. It's probably overkill for this application but I had it and was using it for everything else. If I remember correctly, there was very little gap between the panels. It may look bigger than it is, because the factory placed globs of adhesive at the contact points, but the actual surface between the two panels was in my case rather thin. Anyway, I cleaned off the old material and applied 08115. I didn't brace or compress the joint -- there was already some pressure at the point of contact. It's been five years and I've had no problems.

08115 is, as Terry Kay used to tell us, quite versatile. I used it as a seam sealer, per his recommendation, and my seams have held up well after five years. It's not nearly as flexible as a proper seam sealer, and probably not as flexible as the polyurethane sealant (this may be a better choice). But it does flex a little, and IME can be applied very thick and won't shrink or crack.

I'm not suggesting it's the best thing to use, just reporting the fact that I used it because it was what I had on hand, and it seemed to work quite well.

I understand the concern that pressing the panels together will create a depression, but I don't think this is likely. The inner panels are rather thin and flexible, and I think with everything glued properly the stress on the metal will even out. And I'm pretty sure that the exterior panel is heavier gauge than the inside panel to which it's bonded. Especially if this is done before block sanding, I'd bet that you could even weld the panels together without creating any weird indentations (heat warping concerns aside). The exterior panels seem to me strong enough that attachment points to the inner panels can't create deformations.

[Bulli Klinik]

It looks like the 560 has the qualities I'm looking for. There are a couple of exterior panels which have been damaged and as a result, displaced the bracing a bit. The plan is to push the brace aside, metal-finish flat, bend the brace back and secure. I want to do all this prior to any filler/primer work.

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

Bus in question: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=689614&highlight=
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[hartwesty]

I believe what you're looking for is a foam used to keep the panels from contacting each other. One product is made by Lord it's FUSOR 121. You can find it at an auto body supply store. It's about 40 bucks a tube and requires a special application gun.

[Bulli Klinik]

My local paint supply shop didn't have the 3M product that was suggested. Apparently it's not in their auto paint supply chain and unavailable to them. I didn't want to hold up the project so I went with this:

I don't think that the panel is supposed to be bonded, but rather supported by the sealant. It definitely has adhesive properties, but dries flexible and I hope to use it to seal the seams when I'm at that point. Typical auto paint price at about $20/tube. Time will tell...

Thanks for the input.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs