| Author |
Message |
dub84
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2012
Posts: 129
Location: Victoria
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:23 pm Post subject: Any good sunroof write ups? need some serious help... |
 |
|
Hey everyone...
I have been reading this forum for quite sometime... I recently acquired an 86 Vanagon tiptop with factory sunroof and will be looking to restore it slowly.
The van itself is filled with a bunch of spare parts and is stripped of its headliner and carpet. Only the drivers seat remains. I figure the guy used it as a work van and gutted it.
In my eyes, this is a perfect platform to begin the rebuild so to speak.
The van comes with the factory sunroof and as far as I can tell... the p/o siliconed the outside seal. The handle on the inside appears to be stripped and there is a free floating bracket, closest to the drivers head. It looks like there is a hole in it, meant to be bolted to something.
In anycase, given that these sunroof vans are few and far between... I wanted to know if anyone has any good writes up, photos on how to recondition the system. It appears to be a worm drive? I can get the seal and handle but I am scared that I might break any other parts. Your thoughts and suggestions?
ALSO... my slider windows sag in their seals... so anyone could open them. Should I just order a bunch of new seals for middle and rear?
Thanks for the help in advance! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Any good sunroof write ups? need some serious help... |
|
|
| dub84 wrote: |
The handle on the inside appears to be stripped and there is a free floating bracket, closest to the drivers head. It looks like there is a hole in it, meant to be bolted to something.
It appears to be a worm drive? I can get the seal and handle but I am scared that I might break any other parts. Your thoughts and suggestions?
|
I have a sunroof syncro vanagon and while it's been a long time since I've worked on them I can give you maybe some IIRC help.
If the panel is off the sunroof then you have an opportunity to lubricate the two risers in back. Also thoroughly clean out the channels and etc., and then make sure the four drain holes at each corner are clear. The fact of the matter is the sunroofs were never meant to be 100 % water proof -- some water will always get in as intended -- so it's important to keep those drain holes (and channels) clear.
You are correct it's a type of worm drive --- a wire wrapped cable. Up where the crank handle is attached, dissemble the cog assembly and inspect for damage. The same parts and pieces that worked in the older Bay air-coolers will work in the vanagon too. Even the crank handles although the styles changed a little over the years.
Check the worm cables (2) at this juncture with the cogs for damage or stripping. It's important to try and preserve that cable as much as possible but if damaged they'll need replacing. Last time I looked they are not that commonly available for vanagons so good luck there.
Do not oil or lubricate the worm cable. Opinions differ on lubricating the cogs. I put a very thin lithium grease on the cogs but try to avoid doing so where the cog comes into contact with the cable.
Last, when you routinely crank open and close, do so slowly to avoid this potential stripping of cogs and cable. Go slow and feel for any skipping. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dub84
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2012
Posts: 129
Location: Victoria
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Any good sunroof write ups? need some serious help... |
|
|
| WestyBob wrote: |
| dub84 wrote: |
The handle on the inside appears to be stripped and there is a free floating bracket, closest to the drivers head. It looks like there is a hole in it, meant to be bolted to something.
It appears to be a worm drive? I can get the seal and handle but I am scared that I might break any other parts. Your thoughts and suggestions?
|
I have a sunroof syncro vanagon and while it's been a long time since I've worked on them I can give you maybe some IIRC help.
If the panel is off the sunroof then you have an opportunity to lubricate the two risers in back. Also thoroughly clean out the channels and etc., and then make sure the four drain holes at each corner are clear. The fact of the matter is the sunroofs were never meant to be 100 % water proof -- some water will always get in as intended -- so it's important to keep those drain holes (and channels) clear.
You are correct it's a type of worm drive --- a wire wrapped cable. Up where the crank handle is attached, dissemble the cog assembly and inspect for damage. The same parts and pieces that worked in the older Bay air-coolers will work in the vanagon too. Even the crank handles although the styles changed a little over the years.
Check the worm cables (2) at this juncture with the cogs for damage or stripping. It's important to try and preserve that cable as much as possible but if damaged they'll need replacing. Last time I looked they are not that commonly available for vanagons so good luck there.
Do not oil or lubricate the worm cable. Opinions differ on lubricating the cogs. I put a very thin lithium grease on the cogs but try to avoid doing so where the cog comes into contact with the cable.
Last, when you routinely crank open and close, do so slowly to avoid this potential stripping of cogs and cable. Go slow and feel for any skipping. |
Thanks for the write up bob!
The sunroof panel is still attached to the vehicle and is closed...i do see evidence of silicone on the exterior so I might have to peel some of that away before attempting to open it.
Some total rookie questions: what is the best way to clean these drain holes with limited tools? (I don't have an air compressor or anything.)
Does anyone have pictures of their sunroof system? I see the sheathed worm drive crossing over each other at the handle... But I am wondering about this bracket that moves on the guide freely... Should this be bolted to something like the panel.
It would be great to get some pictures of the sides of the sunroof as it sits for reference. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dampcamper
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 788
Location: Rainy Portland, Oregon
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Bentley book has section 60: Sunroof, with some pretty nice instructions and pictures...just one of many reasons to run out and get that volume!
Here it is as a 59Meg pdf:
http://beakerbus.nl/files/manual/VW_T3_Syncro_Bentley_repairmanual.pdf If your connection is as slow as mine it will be faster to go buy the book...and way more portable.
Enjoy the van!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Any good sunroof write ups? need some serious help... |
|
|
| dub84 wrote: |
The sunroof panel is still attached to the vehicle and is closed...i do see evidence of silicone on the exterior so I might have to peel some of that away before attempting to open it.
Some total rookie questions: what is the best way to clean these drain holes with limited tools? (I don't have an air compressor or anything.)
But I am wondering about this bracket that moves on the guide freely... Should this be bolted to something like the panel.
|
Yes ... pick a dry place and remove the silicon sealant.
People use some type of stiffer wire to run down through the drain holes to clear. Be careful because each drain hole has a plastic tube that runs through the pillar channels and empties out the bottom. You can also run a wire or something semi-flexible from the bottom up to clear the tubes.
But it's a good idea to open the sunroof slightly and then remove the panel from the front first -- it's attached with straight metal squeeze clips so just carefully pull down. Also along the sides. In the back the panel drags on two plastic felt lined clips - not attached to anything. Once you get the front and side clips undone, you may need to open the sunroof a little more to slide out the panel.
I'm not sure what you mean by a bracket that moves freely along a glide.
Also, if you get the panel off and open the sunroof completely, take a hose with a pressure nozzle - any garden hose set up will do - and stick it in the back area (after clearing the drain holes) and try washing out all the crud and grit that's built up back there and can re-clog the holes. I'm talking about the very back of the sunroof between the roof and lower inner roof.
You may need to even use a long stick or something to stick in there and move around to dislodge any large debris pieces or stuff that's stuck. Some stuff may be too large to pass through the drain holes so you'll have to work it back towards you and sweep it out by hand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dub84
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2012
Posts: 129
Location: Victoria
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you for all your help everyone.
I should have clarified that all headliner and cardboard panels are out. It is just bare metal sunroof and bare roof. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dub84
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2012
Posts: 129
Location: Victoria
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
so... following the bentley... if all I have to do is move the leaf spring, take out the crank and the phillips screws to remove the sunroof... can't I do this with the sunroof closed, or does it have to be "slightly" open.
Vehicle is not at my house at the moment... which is why I can't just go out and look. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
You definitely need to open about 1/4 to 1/3 way to get completely out.
It requires some juggling. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
9.5isCanadian
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 465
Location: In your blind spot.
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Any good sunroof write ups? need some serious help... |
|
|
Ok. While I wait for my heads I decided to tackle my stuck closed sun roof. I think I found three or four threads asking about this topc but none of them really got into the nitty gritty of it.
I’ll take pictures tomorrow in the day light but here’s a cliff notes version while it’s fresh in my head.
So initially my sun roof was working great-ish. Opened and closed but was stiff.
Finally it wouldn’t open.
Nada
Zip
Zilcher-roonie
There was a suggestion to remove the hand crank to slacken the cables.
That didn’t help me at all and, now that I’ve seen it in the flesh, don’t think that suggestion is accurate.
You definitely need to get it open enough to weezle a body panel removal tool under the front of the sun roof head liner. There’s five panel clips that need to be popped down to release the front of the SR head liner.
Now force the head liner panel backwards inside the rear of the van, as if the SR was opening. Push it, it’s likely to take some force depending on how much crud is jammed up inside the tracks. I had to push pull push pull to gradually get it slid open all the way. The actual panel, on my van, is tin with vinyl head liner on the inside.
Now that is fully pushed inside the rear section of the roof, you’ll have full visuals of the working mechanisms, track, and junk clogging it all up.
Shine a light down inside the back section and see what lurks back there.
I’ll post pictures tomorrow of my SR and just how much crud was actually in there.
Stay tuned folks.
_________________
9 1/2 - missing a few pieces.
1987 Getaway Hightop
1980 Sunroof Vanagon
2018 BMW R Nine T
2012 Golf tdi
Last edited by 9.5isCanadian on Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
9.5isCanadian
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 465
Location: In your blind spot.
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Any good sunroof write ups? need some serious help... |
|
|
So with the light of day comes the promised pictures....
Let’s get down and dirty!
If you’re like I was, “my sunroof works pretty well. I’m sure it’s fine.”
Tick tock tick tock
Bzzzzz times up!
It’s working until suddenly it’s not.
Wait.....
There’s more! (Tip of the hat to Russell Peters)
Ok. How to get all the dirt in the track way down in the back area?
Compressor + 1/4” fuel line + aluminum round bar= long reach air blaster.
The red blotch is the electrical tape I used to attach the fuel line to the rod.
Lastly. This picture shows the locking tabs that are located at the front of the headliner panel. Unsnap these, downward, then slide the entire panel back into the rear section of the roof.
When your taking the roof panel out, it simply lifts out once the retaining hardware has been unbolted, lay a blanket on the cab and side areas.
Do this before you’re standing there, like the Michelin man bursting out the top of your van.
Hefting the panel over your head, all triumphant rock star like....... with nowhere to put the heavy-ish roof panel and no one present to
A: bask in your mechanical greatness
&
#2 help lift the roof panel over the side of the van.
Awkward pause.
Also, don’t loose the impossibility small E-clips that hold the retaining springs on.
Pictures to follow after I find mine........
Stay tuned.
_________________
9 1/2 - missing a few pieces.
1987 Getaway Hightop
1980 Sunroof Vanagon
2018 BMW R Nine T
2012 Golf tdi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
9.5isCanadian
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2017
Posts: 465
Location: In your blind spot.
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Any good sunroof write ups? need some serious help... |
|
|
Ok. Here’s the assembly pictures.
First up: here’s a shot of the impossibly small E-clip and spring. In order of installation.
Followed by two shots of the rear height adjuster screw loacation.
Followed by assembled picture of E-clip
and completed rear mechanism.
Two shots of the finished functioning smoothly sun roof.
That’s all she wrote,
up next, front sway bar link needs replacing.
Good times ahead.
_________________
9 1/2 - missing a few pieces.
1987 Getaway Hightop
1980 Sunroof Vanagon
2018 BMW R Nine T
2012 Golf tdi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
