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flyboat
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Joined: April 21, 2010
Posts: 2752
Location: Bath NC
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 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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I'm thinking of building a reasonable size engine set up for high rpm. I need help and advice in doing so.Please add any advise you can to help me do so.
The car is a weekend playtoy, a 62 bug.
I have built a 2276 high rev engine. It would turn 7500 easy in high gear (type 3 auto in a bug). I was never comfortable spinning it harder than that because of the short rods and large pistons.It was fun but I want to go with a small piston and a chevy rod for length to improve side load geometry. I was thinking of running the chevy LS beehive springs but not sure on that because teh redline on the ls7 is 7200. Id like to spinn it at 8-8500 I have a webcam high rev cam. Can't remember specs right now. Heads will probably be a set of CB perf. set up with 42/37 valves. I want to run Mega squirt fuel injection with a single throttle body, 4 injectors at the heads
I think a 1915cc or whatever is close to that, displacement is what I want to build. But I will listen to all the advice. I know there are certain combos that work better than others. So whichever combo works the best at around 1900cc is what I think I;m looking for
Thanks
Roger
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Dan Ruddock
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Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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With a 78mm or less crank there is no need for longer rods. What Webcam do you have?
This spring kit will give you you need. Dan
Type 3 auto trans 
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2083200
Last edited by Dan Ruddock on Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| flyboat wrote: |
I'm thinking of building a reasonable size engine set up for high rpm. I need help and advice in doing so.Please add any advise you can to help me do so.
The car is a weekend playtoy, a 62 bug.
I have built a 2276 high rev engine. It would turn 7500 easy in high gear (type 3 auto in a bug). I was never comfortable spinning it harder than that because of the short rods and large pistons.It was fun but I want to go with a small piston and a chevy rod for length to improve side load geometry. I was thinking of running the chevy LS beehive springs but not sure on that because teh redline on the ls7 is 7200. Id like to spinn it at 8-8500 I have a webcam high rev cam. Can't remember specs right now. Heads will probably be a set of CB perf. set up with 42/37 valves. I want to run Mega squirt fuel injection with a single throttle body, 4 injectors at the heads
I think a 1915cc or whatever is close to that, displacement is what I want to build. But I will listen to all the advice. I know there are certain combos that work better than others. So whichever combo works the best at around 1900cc is what I think I;m looking for
Thanks
Roger |
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?topic=3257.30
read this whole thread, and pay attention to anything Johannes Persson says.
his 1600cc made 185hp and spun to 8500. 40x35.5 heads.
it just depends on how much you want to spend, and if you want off the shelf parts or custom parts.
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maui
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Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| some alum. PRs and light lifters. |
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74 Thing
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Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7391
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| Lighter is better (pistons, rods, valve train, lighter springs)-read that JPM link |
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flyboat
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2010
Posts: 2752
Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
Type 3 auto trans
[/url] |
I know. i put a 3 speed auto into a 79 vert bug.
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UK Luke 72
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flyboat
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Joined: April 21, 2010
Posts: 2752
Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| maui wrote: |
| some alum. PRs and light lifters. |
So, Alum. holds up to that rpm. Would I get the 3/8. I typically run chromoly.
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flyboat
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Joined: April 21, 2010
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Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| 74 Thing wrote: |
| Lighter is better (pistons, rods, valve train, lighter springs)-read that JPM link |
What JPM link
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Dan Ruddock
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Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| flyboat wrote: |
| maui wrote: |
| some alum. PRs and light lifters. |
So, Alum. holds up to that rpm. Would I get the 3/8. I typically run chromoly. |
These will. And they will do it with less deflection.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2159797 |
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flyboat
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Joined: April 21, 2010
Posts: 2752
Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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So here are my cams and specs. One of the cams is an old Erson cam. I know Mr. Erson was the cam gooroo back in the seventies. I can't tell exactly what I have here but as I remember it was designed to use with the 1.4 rockers. And its a torque monster 6200 rpm cam.
The other webcam is the cam in the engine that would turn well over 7500 rpm in a 2276 I just never turned it harder. I need to research the lifters to see what makes them special
Thanks for the comments.
The JPM posts are great. I am still reading that thread.
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flyboat
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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So, in the thread posted above, It looks like Johannes will be using stock vw rods to turn his 1603 to 8500 rpms. I would not have thought the stock rods would handle that kind of rpm.
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sled
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Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| flyboat wrote: |
| So, in the thread posted above, It looks like Johannes will be using stock vw rods to turn his 1603 to 8500 rpms. I would not have thought the stock rods would handle that kind of rpm. |
keep reading and he will explain the importance of lightweight pistons and the force/loads the crank and rods will see.
if I were wanting to build a high rpm screaming 1915, I would use JE C-pin height pistons. Significantly lighter weight and less rocking.
there are PLENTY of heads out there that will do what you want, the focus should be on light rotating assembly and light valve train to avoid float and run minimal spring pressures.
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slalombuggy
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Joined: July 17, 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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In my race engine I'm using Pauter rockers, Thorsten Pieper tool steel lifters and CB Performance HD aluminum pushrods and CB 650 springs.
brad |
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flyboat
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Joined: April 21, 2010
Posts: 2752
Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| sled wrote: |
| flyboat wrote: |
| So, in the thread posted above, It looks like Johannes will be using stock vw rods to turn his 1603 to 8500 rpms. I would not have thought the stock rods would handle that kind of rpm. |
keep reading and he will explain the importance of lightweight pistons and the force/loads the crank and rods will see.
if I were wanting to build a high rpm screaming 1915, I would use JE C-pin height pistons. Significantly lighter weight and less rocking.
there are PLENTY of heads out there that will do what you want, the focus should be on light rotating assembly and light valve train to avoid float and run minimal spring pressures. |
I saw that. I am surprised that this positively affects the stock cranks ability to be effective in these engines. Although, I think I would run a counterweighted crank for a 1915 engine. However I am learning about these smaller high hp engines. If someone shows me a counterweighted crank isn't necessary, I would forgo that as well.
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sled
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Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| flyboat wrote: |
| sled wrote: |
| flyboat wrote: |
| So, in the thread posted above, It looks like Johannes will be using stock vw rods to turn his 1603 to 8500 rpms. I would not have thought the stock rods would handle that kind of rpm. |
keep reading and he will explain the importance of lightweight pistons and the force/loads the crank and rods will see.
if I were wanting to build a high rpm screaming 1915, I would use JE C-pin height pistons. Significantly lighter weight and less rocking.
there are PLENTY of heads out there that will do what you want, the focus should be on light rotating assembly and light valve train to avoid float and run minimal spring pressures. |
I saw that. I am surprised that this positively affects the stock cranks ability to be effective in these engines. Although, I think I would run a counterweighted crank for a 1915 engine. However I am learning about these smaller high hp engines. If someone shows me a counterweighted crank isn't necessary, I would forgo that as well. |
a QUALITY counter weighted stock stroke crank never hurts anything!
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
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Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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I always wanted to build a 1776 with 94mm pistons and a de-stroked 64mm crank.
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theKbStockpiler
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Joined: July 07, 2012
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Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| Quote: |
| I'm thinking of building a reasonable size engine set up for high rpm |
Is this intended for a car and how are you going to combat reduced torque at low RPM's?
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Brian
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| how are you going to combat reduced torque at low RPM's? |
Easy, don't have low RPMs  If you have something meant to spin to the moon, just gear the transmission appropriately right? Spin to 7k and move 10 mph. Sounds great for towing.
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theKbStockpiler
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Advice building high RPM engine ?? Small displacement |
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A huge exhaust/induction system and a mild cam would work to some degree. It helps the power drop off of the mild cam. Sometimes you have to ask yourself if it's worth it to avoild a turbo. 
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