| Author |
Message |
Nicconelli
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018
Posts: 48
Location: Western New York
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:20 am Post subject: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
 |
|
Hey all, my name is Nick. My wife and I just picked up a rolling tube frame chassis (apparently the proper term is “sand rail” but since there’s no sand anywhere near me it doesn’t seem to fit for our vehicle). It came with a rebuilt transmission and a bunch of parts, but the biggest missing piece is an engine. I’ve been asking around locally and will keep my eyes on the FS section here.
Anywho, mostly just wanted to say “hi there” and post a pic of my roller. I’m looking forward to getting to know some folks and learn a lot about VWs and sand-dune-rail-buggy-cars.
[edit: typos and lonely image tag]
Last edited by Nicconelli on Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tobiism
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2004
Posts: 502
Location: Chandler AZ
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lot so of questions |
|
|
Howdy! The stout nerf bars and tractor rear tires indicate that yours is a Woodsbuggy! Please make sure the bar over the driver's head gets reinstalled before any fun stuff!
_________________
"There has never been a genius without a hint of madness."
-Albert Einstein |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20378
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lot so of questions |
|
|
No sand?... How about woods?... Woods buggy!
Yes roll bar(cage) over drivers head needs attentions also missing brace on front passenger side.... looks rough, but maybe a little sandblast, inspect welds, get it into primer would help a lot....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nicconelli
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018
Posts: 48
Location: Western New York
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lot so of questions |
|
|
“Woods buggy” sounds good to me! Plenty of woods around here.
There are actually three missing bars… The roll cage one was removed because it had been installed backwards, the front diagonal piece was removed because apparently some water got in it and it burst when it froze, and the other one is in the back and was removed to make it easier to get the transmission in and out (with axles installed). All of these were removed by the previous owner, who never got around to putting them back in and finishing the project.
I’m excited to get sanding and stripping it. It’s going to be a father-son thing with me and my dad, who also has a VW-based kit car (not a buggy of any sort) and welding gear.
Thanks for the warm welcome! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rwf8ball
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2004
Posts: 234
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| Front wheels looks like they have been flipped around |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20378
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| rwf8ball wrote: |
| Front wheels looks like they have been flipped around |
Common practice (old school) if you wanted the "reversed wheel" look on the street or to widen stance on front end....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dennismcd707 
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 517
Location: Burbs of Detroit
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
Instead of buying an engine, why don't you build one from the case up? All new parts. It should be fun to do that, and it'll go well with the rebuilt transaxle. Plus... you'll REALLY REALLY know your new buggy. If cost is the same, why not? Lots of "how to" books and videos available for first timers, plus a wealth of knowledge here on theSamba! I'm building one as I write this, so I'm speaking about first hand knowledge of "fun". (and frustration, then fun again...)
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mal evolent
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2009
Posts: 2912
Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| Quote: |
| the biggest missing piece is an engine. I’ve been asking around locally and will keep my eyes on the FS section here. |
the number of surviving VWs greatly exceeds the number of surviving engines. the day of finding running VW engines at affordable prices is long gone. rebuildable cores are rare. as noted above, start fresh with a new case and roll your own
read this: VW Performance Engine Building Considerations
from: Aircooled.net VW Tech Articles Index
_________________
73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats
Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nicconelli
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018
Posts: 48
Location: Western New York
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:59 am Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| dennismcd707 wrote: |
| why don't you build one from the case up? |
That’s a valid option, and your points are well taken. One of the big “maybes” with the engine is my Dad was tossing around the idea of a new engine for his kit car, and would possibly give me his old one, which leaks/burns a little oil, but runs fine otherwise.
I’ll have to look at the costs of building. It may be easier to spend for the cases (then every so often a little here and a little there) than to buy a whole used one and have to tune it up anyway.
::scratches beard::
Thanks for the ideas and the links... I’ll be thinking on it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20378
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:53 am Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
There is this option to consider....
http://www.cbperformance.com/Builder-s-Choice-Engine-Kits-s/116.htm
The 1776 would be decent performer in woods buggy...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mal evolent
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2009
Posts: 2912
Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
You also have a "Ball Joint" front beam, FYI. they were used in 65 and up Standard bugs [not super beetles], if you take a picture of the back showing the trans axle we can ID it as well.
Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| earthquake wrote: |
You also have a "Ball Joint" front beam, FYI. they were used in 65 and up Standard bugs [not super beetles], if you take a picture of the back showing the trans axle we can ID it as well.
Casey |
Ball joint front ends were used in 1966 and later Bugs.
And when you replace the missing front bar, water pipe is not the cool stuff to use. 1" x .065 wall electro weld tubing is fine. It SHOULD be welded all the way around at both ends to keep water out.
It's interesting that water pipe was used and it got water inside then froze and burst... See? Shouldn't have been water pipe in the 1st place.  
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nicconelli
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018
Posts: 48
Location: Western New York
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:21 am Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| earthquake wrote: |
| if you take a picture of the back showing the trans axle we can ID it as well. |
Ok then!
As for the frame piece... I don’t think it was water pipe before, even though it did end up with water in it (ha ha, funny funny), and it won’t be water pipe when I replace them either; I know a guy who used to build race car chassis, and he has told me that he’d hook me up, so it’ll be good stuff that I replace it with.
| dustymojave wrote: |
| Ball joint front ends were used in 1966 and later Bugs. |
I found a chassis number (*116436770*) that seems to suggest the donor car was built in December of ‘65, so that sounds like it makes sense.
As for all the engine sources... thank you all for the links and pointers. I have a LONG road of other things to finish before I buy an engine, so I will use all of that info in my decision process. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20378
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:36 am Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| Nicconelli wrote: |
| earthquake wrote: |
| if you take a picture of the back showing the trans axle we can ID it as well. |
Ok then!
As for the frame piece... I don’t think it was water pipe before, even though it did end up with water in it (ha ha, funny funny), and it won’t be water pipe when I replace them either; I know a guy who used to build race car chassis, and he has told me that he’d hook me up, so it’ll be good stuff that I replace it with.
| dustymojave wrote: |
| Ball joint front ends were used in 1966 and later Bugs. |
I found a chassis number (*116436770*) that seems to suggest the donor car was built in December of ‘65, so that sounds like it makes sense.
As for all the engine sources... thank you all for the links and pointers. I have a LONG road of other things to finish before I buy an engine, so I will use all of that info in my decision process. |
Basic T1 swing axle used from 61 up through 68, 69 transaxle was first IRS with flanges and CV joints for output....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nicconelli
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2018
Posts: 48
Location: Western New York
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:23 am Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| Dale M. wrote: |
| Basic T1 swing axle used from 61 up through 68 |
Thanks for that. I've been having trouble finding any info based on that casting number. I'm thinking it will have a role in my buying an engine, but I assume if I stay in those years I'll be ok. Or if I end up buying an engine with trans attached I can sell or swap this trans and it will help knowing what I have. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
I talked about water pipe because the tube from the dash bar to the front upper crossmember over the driver's feet in the picture above, appears to be galvanized, like water pipe.
The engine and trans really do not have to match year model to year model. The gear box you have, IF it is from a 1961-1966 Bug, will have 4.37:1 ring and pinion ratio (stock). Later swingaxle and early IRS (1967-1972) gearboxes have 4.12:1 ratio. Bugs 1973 and newer have 3.88:1 ratio. 1st through 4th gear ratios are the same through all of those years.
The clutch pressure plate needs to match the throwout bearing in the trans, and that changed in the late 60s (IIRC). Also the flywheel diameter at the ring gear for the starter and the bushing for the starter shaft in the bell housing changed when the electrical system changed from 6Volt to 12 Volt in 1967. Those issues are easy to fix. Otherwise, VW Bug aircooled engines are interchangeable.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| dustymojave wrote: |
| earthquake wrote: |
You also have a "Ball Joint" front beam, FYI. they were used in 65 and up Standard bugs [not super beetles], if you take a picture of the back showing the trans axle we can ID it as well.
Casey |
Ball joint front ends were used in 1966 and later Bugs.
And when you replace the missing front bar, water pipe is not the cool stuff to use. 1" x .065 wall electro weld tubing is fine. It SHOULD be welded all the way around at both ends to keep water out.
It's interesting that water pipe was used and it got water inside then froze and burst... See? Shouldn't have been water pipe in the 1st place. |
You are right, Brain Fart. That's what happens as you get older.
Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: New guy here... have rolling frame and lots of questions |
|
|
| earthquake wrote: |
Ball joint front ends were used in 1966 and later Bugs.
You are right, Brain Fart. That's what happens as you get older.
Casey |
That's why they call us "Old Farts".... And I represent that comment... or is it "resemble"? 
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
