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Window regulator - manual - lesson learned- SOLVED
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned- SOLVED Reply with quote

OK, I posted this in another thread but have decided to start a new one as this is more specific to the plastic guides and the square block.

Passenger door regulator has popped out of the track for the second time in a month - time to go deeper.

Following Dave's excellent instructions, I have the regulator out. The issue appears to be the square block is missing the tiny guides on one side. I'm also missing one of the plastic guides that runs along the rail. I believe I can make both of these items and possibly a bit heartier than the stock ones.
My issue right now is trying to remove the square plastic block.

In Dave's instructions, he mentions some tabs that need to be squeezed together.

I couldn't seem to squeeze them together enough or I don't understand how it works. There is a slot between two tabs but it's not wide enough to allow much squeezing.
So, I went to the Go Westy site as they offer a repair kit to replace the two plastic guides and square block. Sure enough, there's a PDF you can view that tells you how to remove the block. Trouble is, (at least on my 82 van) the instructions say to bend the end stops open in the channel, run the block out, and while holding the screw portion with pliers - unscrew the block.

Well, like an idiot, I did just that and completely ruined the block as it bent up the three sheet metal formed bits that make up the female threads. Now I have an odd bit that is simply an anchor for a very small boat. Looking closely, I can now see that this was never intended to come off the end and I also can not see any way it was intended to come apart at all.

I know I can purchase a new regulator at quite a few places but I get the feeling that none of them are as high a quality as this 30+ year old unit. The mechanism works like new, I just needed to replace the square block and one missing plastic runner/clip.

I do have a fairly local source that may have the part used so I'm going to see about that before I order one online.

Just a word of caution to anyone attempting to rebuild theirs.
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82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th

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Last edited by Gizmoman on Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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termuehlen Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned Reply with quote

You are correct that the replacement regulators are not as good as the original. I have one in the “part it forward” thread. PM me & I will send it to you for free. You could install it and be unhappy with it, as i did. Or maybe you could cannibalize it to repair your original.
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned Reply with quote

termuehlen wrote:
You are correct that the replacement regulators are not as good as the original. I have one in the “part it forward” thread. PM me & I will send it to you for free. You could install it and be unhappy with it, as i did. Or maybe you could cannibalize it to repair your original.


PM sent. Hopefully I can do as you said - cannibalize the unit for the bits I need.

I believe if a guy is careful with a tiny grinder, the end of the "screw" can be modified to allow the female threaded block to unscrew. My concern is that the "blob" at the end is actually a weld where the spring attaches to the end of the cable. Removing this weld may cause other issues - I guess I will find out.
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82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th

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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned Reply with quote

An FYI for readers......

http://www.gowesty.com/product/manual-roll-up/24704/manual-window-regulator-rebuild-kit?v=


http://www.gowesty.com/files/GVW-WNDW-REG-RBLD-KIT.pdf

Why didn't this work for you? It seems like the best solution, better than my tab theory....

Dave
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned Reply with quote

Dave, my lift is manual - never said anything about it being electric.
I'd post some photos (and may yet) but it's pretty much junk now. I followed GW's PDF instructions but should have taken more care before I tried unscrewing it from the cable/spring assembly.

At the end of the cable, the spring appears to be either swedged or welded to the end of the cable. This blob interrupts the threads significantly and if you force the nut (block) over this blob, you're going to ruin it.
I'm not saying there may be models where this is not the case, just saying it is the case on mine which is an 82.

Dave, feel free to either combine my post with yours or simply delete my post altogether. As I was speaking specifically to replacing the plastic bits and the fact that a "kit" may not work out or may need a bit more scrutiny before some ham-handed guy (like me) ruins his regulator - I decided to start a new thread. It is a bit confusing though Very Happy - your call.
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned - solved Reply with quote

Just an update.
A very kind member shipped his brand new aftermarket regulator to me to either cannibalize or use as is. It looks good and appeared identical to the stock unit in practically every detail. Actually, the plastic channel guides look to be a better design than the stock ones were. However, in operation, it felt chintzy and not nearly as smooth - which is why he didn't use it and I decided to cannibalize it.

After opening up the tabs at the end of the aftermarket screw-guide and running the screw and nut out the end, I rotated the nut clockwise away from the end of the screw. With the end of the screw exposed, I ground off the weld or whatever it is, and made sure that the thread that is formed by the spring and cable is clear of burrs.

Then I unscrewed the nut and plastic block off the end and screwed it onto the end of my stock regulator's cable-screw. Be careful here - it's tough to turn. You can use pliers or a vise to hold the screw but turn the nut by hand. If it doesn't want to come off, back the nut up and clear the end some more.

Now I have a smooth operating regulator with all new (and better) plastic guides. It's obvious that VW's crank gear assembly is much higher quality.

I mention all this for anyone considering replacing their manual regulators. Aftermarket units can be found online for as little as 26 bucks. If your careful, you can have smooth operation for another 30+ years.

Jim
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82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th

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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned- SOLVED Reply with quote

What you did is exactly what Wheels of Time did when they fixed Winston's passenger-side regulator. Good bodyman just cannibalized my aftermarket replacement to fix the shot VW unit.

It's behaved since.

Shocked

Best!
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned- SOLVED Reply with quote

msinabottle wrote:
What you did is exactly what Wheels of Time did when they fixed Winston's passenger-side regulator. Good bodyman just cannibalized my aftermarket replacement to fix the shot VW unit.

It's behaved since.

Shocked

Best!


That is a good body-man! Mine's all in now and I even added an o-ring under the wind-wing pivot so it will stay open at speed. These vehicles had some issues even out the door. However, the platform is solid and simple, and lends itself well to small improvements.
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Oversize Spare rack https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2169071
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calo1956
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned- SOLVED Reply with quote

I had ordered a aftermarket regulator as well, as my window would drop off the track when i lowered it. I put in the new one, and it was total junk. I just took the plastic block off, and put it on my old regulator, and it was as good as new!
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned- SOLVED Reply with quote

Gizmoman wrote:
I even added an o-ring under the wind-wing pivot so it will stay open at speed.


I've adjusted the tension on the lower wing window hinge pin before and set it so it will stay open at speed without any other mods.
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Window regulator - manual - lesson learned- SOLVED Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
Gizmoman wrote:
I even added an o-ring under the wind-wing pivot so it will stay open at speed.


I've adjusted the tension on the lower wing window hinge pin before and set it so it will stay open at speed without any other mods.


Hmm, Using a flashlight, I noticed there was an adjustment screw and bracket. I just couldn't figure out how to get to the screw. I was hoping it was a hex bolt but the head seems to be round. Can you provide some pointers?
Edit - from what I've discovered, the frame assembly needs to come out. If I were replacing the seals that would be a good time. For now, the o-ring works fine.
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82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th

Oversize Spare rack https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2169071
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