Add your $0.02. Westy contemplation of 1.8T & flipped tranny

[metropoj]

So, being amazed with things such as reversed 1.8t, regular 1.8t's, flipped trannies, I started collecting bits and Research the hell out of things.

The plan I settled on is AEB 1.8t 20deg install with flipped PASSAT DVX tranny.

I have drawn the following conclusions and would like some input from the more talented people on if what I have concluded makes sense

My 86 Westy is currently running a well sorted TiiCo with stock tranny. HP around 118HP. at 120kmh ( 70 MPH ) I turn around 3900 rpm in 4th. I run CLK's at a height of 27.2in.

My concern is if the Passat 5spd DVX + AEB 1.8T makes sense based on weight, HP and torque given my situation. I don't run mountains but don't want to be downshifting all the time either.

Stock AEB HP and Torque are way up there in RPM ( around 5500 for HP ) .

However, Stage 1 chip brings this all down into the 3500 rpm range. Graph at far bottom....

I have tried to compare what RPM I will be turning at 120kmh ( Approx 70 MPH ) in 5th to see where it lies WRT HP and Torque.

DVX vs AUF:

Flint had mentioned about the AUF tranny and that it wasn't a whole lot different than the stock Passat offerings of the late 90's (in North America )

Sure enough, the number show that a 4.11 R&P will mean the motor will turn at 3k at 120kmh.

The DVX ( what I have ) will turn at 2880rpm at 120 kmh.

Both are a little low IMO but I'm more interested in widely available tranny than what we would deem "oddball" here in North America. When I say 'oddball', I mean other 012 trannies not widely available in our market space.

AUF numbers:

DVX Numbers:

What I'm trying to figure is if the HP and torque around that Vertical Red Line I drew on the torque graph would suffice for a Westy.

I am thinking I MAY be OK?

The Red Veritcal Line falls around 240 Torque and 125 hp.

This should allow for some decent cruising in fairly flat terrain with a family of 4. I suspect if I rev much lower like at 100 kmh I'll have to stay in 4th.

Curious if you would think the RPM range are OK of if I should just stay with a 4 speed and be happy screaming along at 3900 ...
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[dobryan]

Others are better at this than I am but those HP and torque numbers are better than my EJ25 at 4000 rpm and I can climb hills/mountains fairly easy at that rpm so it seems that the stage 1 tuned AEB would be fine at 2800 rpm. YMMV.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
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Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
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The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[vwwestyman]

Do some research on clearances, mounting heights, CV joints and all that.

I say this because I have a friend who was working on this project on a '78 Bus.

He had the transmission and all that, and spent a lot of time and money trying to make it all work.

However, the output flanges end up pretty high in relation to the body of the gearbox when it is flipped. So you end up needing high-angle CVs and still have a low-hanging oil sump.

Depending on how you plan to use the Van, this might not be an issue. But if you want to go off-road a little, then certainly read about this before you pull the trigger.

My friend is abandoning the flipped gearbox, he is going to regear a standard Bus transmission instead.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[Zeitgeist 13]

Yeah, I think this approach will require lowering the drivetrain and raising the suspension like on my ALH build. I like that combo. How will you deal with the bellhousing?
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[markswagen]

There's a good bit of information on the brick-yard and the club8090 sites.
Look for ultimate engineering, also I think they offer a kit.
Why not run the engine reverse rotation,it seems that it works every bit as well, the effort in flipping the transmission and getting it to function properly, surely it would be easier to modify the engine.
I'm now sat here wondering if a Subaru engine would run backwards.
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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[metropoj]

I'll fill in the rest of the story for fun but I didn't want to get into any particulars on this yet besides the HP / Torque side of things ... it muddies the waters. If the HP / Torque doesn't work well, there is not much sense in proceeding IMO.

I will proceed as follows on the rest:

1. I will use the Ultimate Engineering adapter.

2. I haven't decided on Tims' 130mm Flower Pot Drive axle shaft adapters or something else. I contemplated to get my 108mm axle shafts drilled to mate 100mm CV's and push the spacers to the wheel side of the axle shafts. I need to get proper clearance in the trailing arms and axle shaft length correct for the articulation.

There is a fellow I'm discussing with who can make 20mm thick 108mm to 100mm CV adapters for a reasonable amount. My next concern is if 40mm of space on the CV's will cause issues. I believe a max of 30mm has been discussed. I can't cut the adpaters down as it'll be too thin to hold the torque.

2. I am planning to not cut the Bellhousing at first. I have followed the German website link that did a 15mm flywheel spacer instead. A fellow in Quebec here is doing something similar and presented a good idea on a solution. I cut the end off a Manual crank 1.8T and drilled out the threads. This will be machined to fit onto my auto crankshaft engine and provide a spacer / pilot bearing holder for my flywheel.

3. 100mm 944 CV's will articulate to 22 deg which is the plan to try out first.

4. The tranny nose mount drops the drivetrain 40mm. That's 1.5 inches. This doesn't seem like a huge deal to me but in practice maybe is ...



I have the option to create a Vanabarrow for mock up whilst I play with all this so I've got little to lose if this doesn't pan out...
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[metropoj]

Oh, the thing about most of the UK stuff is that they are all Diesel guys with Diesel trannies. That's a whole other different set of torque and HP relationships that mean little to my scenario. I don't want to go Diesel.
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[ALIKA T3]

PM me to get some adapters at a better price, I have a friend in Europe who ran a small batch, I think he has a couple kits left.

I drove one with a M-Tdi engine, that's such a sweet combo! I loved flooring it and having my back against the seat, I was giggling and not afraid of breaking the transmission
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Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[xoo00oox]

You will be ok with that gearing and a tuned AEB. You will have to drop a gear to pass a car or for a long incline but it should pull fine in 5th on the highway.

You can just use 108mm CVs on the stock Vanagon axles to bolt them directly to your flanges, part #701498350X, these have the same spline as Vanagon axles and 108mm diameter.

[ALIKA T3]

[metropoj]

[xoo00oox]

[metropoj]

[pechaaa]

[Wellington]

If I was ten years younger I'd peruse a mid engine 1.8T.
Cut out below the rear seat, fit the 1.8T and transmission behind it, Box in the transmission and have trunk space.

I think Furryotter did a midengined Subaru, but had to cut the rear suspension arms and weld them narrower to fit the Subaru motor. The I.8T is taller and narrower, just might fit.

[Zeitgeist 13]

I've been cogitating on that longitudinal mid-engined approach for a while now. Now that someone has done the transverse middy, I'm also contemplating that kind of wild project. VW was kind enough to offer us lots of options for drivetrain swaps.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[levi]

About that APR graph you show with the stage 1 tune, I contacted apr and several of their distributors and they said no-go for specifically the aeb.

This was several years ago and things may have changed since then, but they said they quit doing the aeb because they couldn't flash it.
Only year 2000 and up.

There are chipped ecu's available for the aeb, but I believe you will only see up to about 190-195 h.p. on that.

I'm guessing others on here will know if this is at all correct.

Also with the auf (that's what I have) I think you really won't be happy with tires that are 27" diameter.

I have 225/55/16 at 25.7 and I think it's about perfect for city driving, but still have to downshift climbing.

Don't get me wrong, I seriously love this engine and trans combo, but it wouldn't be fun climbing with 27.2"
Just my lonely opine.

Also I do have a chipped ecu.
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but till I do I won't be hangin round.
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