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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1297 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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I am here wearing my party hat. I may not be in the clear yet, but I have made great progress.
After attempting a couple of different ways of getting this bolt out, the method suggested by Sharp64 was what the doctor ordered. Thank you Bryan!!
I tried the transfer punch method, made the divot, but the drill bit kept wondering. Tried punching it a number of times, but I was all over the place when it came to drilling.
I tried getting the vice grips on the back side of the bolt, on the little bit of bolt that was poking through. It certainly turned that way. Wasn't hard at all. But I kept slipping off the end and eventually rounded the bolt off making it impossible to grab on to.
So out came the Dremel tool. Made a slot big enough for my flat head screwdriver and it started turning. After 4-5 turns it came to a quick stop. So I screwed it back in, then back out hoping to break it free. I think the marred threads inside and the torn bolt was causing the hang up. SO, I screwed it out the back as far as I could and I grabbed it with the vice grips again. IT came right out.
So I grabbed one of the other bolts that were in good shape and I very lightly screwed it in to the hole where this broken bolt was to see how far it would go in, it didn't make it 2 turns before it stopped. So I cleaned the hole out with cleaner, and that's where it sits.
so now, do I run a tap in to it to re-thread or what are the next steps? I do have new OE bolts coming in within the next day or two, but I tend to think there is no fixing this to be able to use these OE bolts. Thanks for the help everyone, on to the next issue
oh, and the drivers side rear all torqued to 30 with no problems _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31266 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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crankbait09 wrote: |
so now, do I run a tap in to it to re-thread or what are the next steps? I do have new OE bolts coming in within the next day or two, but I tend to think there is no fixing this to be able to use these OE bolts. Thanks for the help everyone, on to the next issue |
Yes, I would.
EVfun wrote: |
Any light oil will work, olive oil if you want. |
Not this one
_________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5305 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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crankbait09 wrote: |
So out came the Dremel tool. Made a slot big enough for my flat head screwdriver and it started turning. After 4-5 turns it came to a quick stop. So I screwed it back in, then back out hoping to break it free. I think the marred threads inside and the torn bolt was causing the hang up. SO, I screwed it out the back as far as I could and I grabbed it with the vice grips again. IT came right out.
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Jus so we’re clear here...my overthought, silly idea worked when the advise of the Wizard of The Samba’s didn’t? I’m aghast!!!
Glad it worked out Shaun. You’re doing great. Keep it up! _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1297 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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that made me laugh.........
so as for this re-tap. If I stick with the thread pitch, and bolt size that should be in there, how will I know if a bolt increase is needed? I have never used a tap set before. I get it though, it looks real easy, nothing im worried about, but I don't know how re-tapping a jacked up hole will keep the existing bolt size.
I assume, if the bolt screws in, and it wobbles a tad, then I need to re-tap to the next bolt size up? Am I overthinking again?
Are taps strong enough to where I could trust a "rental" from a local parts store? Or should I buy my own set? They arn't exactly cheap, so trying to take care of this one hole for now before I invest in my own set _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5305 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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Long term you’ll use a tap and die set. Maybe look for just a metric one. Rental is fine for now. Honestly, I’ll bet with a new bolt you’ll be able to run it through without a tap.
If there is any rust on the threads you may want to grab a can of PB Blaster Penetrating oil. It helps cut through corrosion. _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1297 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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Sharp64 wrote: |
Long term you’ll use a tap and die set. Maybe look for just a metric one. Rental is fine for now. Honestly, I’ll bet with a new bolt you’ll be able to run it through without a tap.
If there is any rust on the threads you may want to grab a can of PB Blaster Penetrating oil. It helps cut through corrosion. |
I used the other bolt and couldn't get through, if that matters.
I did use cleaner, as well as PB blaster, but I still got hung up. I couldn't see what was binding up, but obviously it didn't have clean threads. I saw no rust though. _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3412 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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You only need 1 tap and maybe a handle. Do you have all the bolt pieces now? If so, just run a tap thru it. Test it with a torque wrench. If it doesnt hold, use a longer bolt, nut. You would need to run the tap all the way thru, since there is probably crap in there. Some oil on the tap, run it thru, blow it out and run it again, with oil. Just make sure you hold the tap straight, most important |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1297 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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short of me taking a bolt to a store and searching for the right thread pitch, and size.......does anyone know what the specifications are on these bolts? So I know what tap to make sure I get _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1297 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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chrisflstf wrote: |
You only need 1 tap and maybe a handle. Do you have all the bolt pieces now? If so, just run a tap thru it. Test it with a torque wrench. If it doesnt hold, use a longer bolt, nut. You would need to run the tap all the way thru, since there is probably crap in there. Some oil on the tap, run it thru, blow it out and run it again, with oil. Just make sure you hold the tap straight, most important |
Are you asking if I have all the broken pieces out of the hole now? If so, then yes, I do. The hole is clear _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5305 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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Take a bolt with you to Ace Hardware. Not one of the big box stores. They will be able to tell you what the threads and pitch are and hopefully have the correct tap. _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1297 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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alright. _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3412 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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Those bolts are special, wait for your OE ones. I believe they are 10 mm x 1.5 mm, but they have a 14 mm hex head, low profile. Check yours |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31266 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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I think you'll be fine running an oiled tap through there, work back and forth.
My metric tap and die set is an inexpensive one, like from Harbor Freight. I recently used it to help a Samba member "save" his generator. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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Cusser wrote: |
I think you'll be fine running an oiled tap through there, work back and forth.
My metric tap and die set is an inexpensive one, like from Harbor Freight. I recently used it to help a Samba member "save" his generator. |
X2. I have both SAE and Metric tap and die sets from HF. They serve my needs.
I used one tap to clear and freshen up the case savers on my most recent engine build. The head studs were notchy when threading them into the case savers. I ran the tap through and wallah. The studs glided right in smoothly after chasing the stud threads too.
Any fastener that seams to need a little thread clean up gets the tap or the die with a little oil added to help lube things up.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1297 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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I am officially out of the woods!
Took the new bolt to Ace Hardware the other day to find the thread pitch so I knew what tap/die to get.
I needed two different taps, but since one was a rare size I had a hard time finding them in the same kit. I didn't really wanna spend between 5-10 bucks for one tap. So I said, hell with it, and I decided to go to HF and buy the kit that had both sizes I needed in one kit. $15 for the kit.
After cleaning the rear wheel bearing cover bolt hole out, I proceeded to tap it. That HF tap made quick work of it, and the new bolt screwed in perfectly. Cover bolt torqued in place, and all was happy! I also re-threaded the shock mounting bolt. After I did that, the nut screwed on very smooth. Torques them puppies down, and all was happy there, too. $15 dollar kit served me well
thanks so much for the help.
On to my next issues......... _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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See told ya!
Great job. You'll use those taps on every job that has a stubborn thread fit.
Have a great weekend!
Edit: I used one of my HF taps to clean up a rusty tin screw hole tonight. They work for the home jobber. Just don't push them to the breaking point. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26297 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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I did feel a little bad that my instructing you to torque that in the 40-47 range but I've done this myself for years and never had a problem. (and yes I quoted the 65 book, as many people have upgraded their bearing cover to that style, I know I did like 20 years ago on my 62, but I did mention that VW's 1964 Spanish-language version of that book, which would be for the 64/older style, also says 5.5-6.5 mkg (40-47 foot pounds, even if it has a glaring typo where it states 40-70 )
Stock 10 grade bolts should be good for over 50 pound feet of torque. I said it above but I've seen it where backing plate or bearing cover bolts were not tight enough, and every time you stopped and changed directions and stopped again, the backing plate would shift, with the bolts being the "stops" for this undesired movement. After enough of that it can damage or weaken the bolt, and I suspect this is what caused this failure. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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crankbait09 Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2016 Posts: 1297 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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It's all good. No worries. I learned something new and it turned out well. _________________ 1963 Ragtop |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31266 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
See told ya!
Great job. You'll use those taps |
Yep, it seems that every year I find a few uses for my inexpensive tap/die kit !!! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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arizonabuckeye Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013 Posts: 544 Location: SLC
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: Re: uh oh, I got a rear wheel bearing cover problem |
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crankbait09 wrote: |
I am officially out of the woods!
Took the new bolt to Ace Hardware the other day to find the thread pitch so I knew what tap/die to get.
I needed two different taps, but since one was a rare size I had a hard time finding them in the same kit. I didn't really wanna spend between 5-10 bucks for one tap. So I said, hell with it, and I decided to go to HF and buy the kit that had both sizes I needed in one kit. $15 for the kit.
After cleaning the rear wheel bearing cover bolt hole out, I proceeded to tap it. That HF tap made quick work of it, and the new bolt screwed in perfectly. Cover bolt torqued in place, and all was happy! I also re-threaded the shock mounting bolt. After I did that, the nut screwed on very smooth. Torques them puppies down, and all was happy there, too. $15 dollar kit served me well
thanks so much for the help.
On to my next issues......... |
I took the other approach - after buying a cheapo HF set that literally fell apart in my hands - I went and bought a decent handle (~$20) and have been buying the taps and dies when needed. Now I have a small collection of quality taps/dies - strange enough after buying three sets or so I seem to just be reusing those. |
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