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Wheelie Pete Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2005 Posts: 517 Location: Detroit Rock City
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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A little unknown fact about battery cables is that there is a size difference between 6volt and 12 volt cables. 12 volt cables are smaller in diameter due to the fact that electricity is more efficient at higher voltages, and therefore less cable surface area is needed to transmit the same.about of power (Watts).
Because of this, you can run a 6 volt cable on a 12 volt system, but you won't be able to run a 12 volt cable on a 6 volt system without experiencing sluggish starting problems, especially when warm or hot.
Most people aren't aware of this difference, and will gladly sell you a 12 volt cable for a 6 volt application.
So with all that being said, I have a few questions.
1. What is the proper Gage size for a 6 volt vw starter cable?
2. What company sells a 6 volt starter cable in the correct size?
Thanks! - wheelie pete |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Yes half the volts = twice the current.
The correct wire gauge is shown on the wiring diagrams.
From the 1962 wiring diagram, the wire gauge between battery + terminal and solenoid terminal 30 is 25 square millimeters.
You can find online converters to convert square millimeters to American Wire Gauge (AWG). 25 sq. mm converts to roughly 3 AWG. 4 AWG is a little bit smaller than 25 sq. mm so to be conservative you'd want to go for the larger wire size in AWG, which would be 3. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
You can find online converters to convert square millimeters to American Wire Gauge (AWG). 25 sq. mm converts to roughly 3 AWG. |
At the very bottom of each wiring chart web page is a conversion chart and other good to know about info. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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swharris Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 502 Location: N. Orange County
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Well, color me one of the uninformed. I'm now going to be changing my cables. Thank you for the info. |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:09 am Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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I make my own out of #4 welding cable. Far more conductive than any $20 cable from a FLAPS
brad |
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3445 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Battery cables are at least 50% oversized, so you wont see any difference using a 12V cable on 6V |
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klroger Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2017 Posts: 151 Location: deep river, Ottawa Valley
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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I had our Heavy truck repair shop make me ones out of 2 ga cable. I also ran an extra one from the Batt - right to a starter bolt. I cranks Awesome Now!!!
Roger _________________ I Didn't know what to do, So I Didn't do anything!!!! |
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pilottangocharlie Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2017 Posts: 83 Location: Newcastle, OK
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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I'm using the positive cable from WW for my 6V system (1964 Beetle).
The thing I couldn't figure out when pulling it through the pan grommet is why in the world the grommet I.D. is so small. I ended up tearing the very end of the grommet off. It is definitely sealed, although it doesn't look as good now. _________________ Tyler |
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Wheelie Pete Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2005 Posts: 517 Location: Detroit Rock City
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Thanks for the replies!
The 66 bug diagram (6 volt)- the starter cable specified is 25. (66-69 Bentley)
The 72 bug diagram (12 volt) - the starter cable specified is 25. (70-79 Bentley)
The Karmann Ghia diagram (66-69 Bentley) (12 volt) - the starter cable specified is 35.
The Karmann Ghia diagram (70-79 Bentley) (12 volt), the starter cable specified is 25.
I don't know why there is a discrepancy between the 12 volt ghia cables, unless the 35 is left over from the 6 volt ghia. I just do not know. However, I believe the ghia has a longer run than a bug, so a bigger cable makes sense.
4 gage = 21.2 mm^2
3 gage = 26.7mm^2
2 gage is 33.6mm^2
1 gage is 42.4mm^2
Sjbartnik covered it earlier, you really want 3 gage or bigger for 6 volt, and perhaps 2 gage for an early 6volt ghia. It appears you want 3 gage for 12 volt also.
I checked with Wolfsburg West this a.m., and asked them about the gage on the their "6V" starter cable, and they stated 4 gage. That is definitely the wrong size.
Hope this helps! |
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pilottangocharlie Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2017 Posts: 83 Location: Newcastle, OK
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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In that case, I’ll be following along to source the correct size cable for 6V Beetle. _________________ Tyler |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Bigger is better in this case. I worked on a 37 Chevy with 4 gauge auto parts store cables, and it had extreme difficulty turning over when hot. A fellow enthusiast up the road with pre-50 chevys suggested to make cables out of 1/0 welding cable, and it would turn over like a modern car. After getting the cables made, it spun over three times the speed of the 4 gauge cable. Do you need 1/0 cables for a Beetle, probably not. I would look into 2-4 gauge welding wire though. |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Not only is thw size important, but also the size of the conductive strands inside the cable. Cheaper cabkes have fewer strands per given cable size. This is what makes welding cable such a good conductor. . On my buggy the battery sits over the front beam. I have #4 welding cable from the battery going to the + terminal on the starter AND another one on the top starter bolt. I use a very small 320cca battery and i can strart my high compression engine even when hot.
brad |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:05 am Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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I see people discussing getting cables made. Is there a company out there that does this or is this something that is typically available locally? _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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klroger Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2017 Posts: 151 Location: deep river, Ottawa Valley
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:33 am Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Go to your local Heavy truck repair place.
Just measure them & tell them what you want on the ends. I had my + cable made red & the - is black. Measure the size of the bolt you want the other end to go on & tell them.
The place that done mine soldered everything together & covered the ends with shrink wrap. I used 2 ga from our local heavy truck repair place & ran the - right to the bolt for the starter. I also had them make a short piece to go from the trans to the body They made them while I waited. Took like 15 mins. . Hope this helps.
Roger _________________ I Didn't know what to do, So I Didn't do anything!!!! |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:35 am Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Sharp64 wrote: |
I see people discussing getting cables made. Is there a company out there that does this or is this something that is typically available locally? |
Weld supply stores may be a good source for cables. they maybe able to crimp the end you need for you
Bug On! _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:49 am Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Yeah, heavy truck places, welding supply stores, and shops specializing in batteries should be able to fix you up. There are various listings for 5-10 ft. lengths of welding cable in black/red on eBay, and Summit Racing has various crimpable, and solderable battery/eyelet terminals for the ends for the diy. |
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hitest Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008 Posts: 10296 Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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This implies a necessary change to the braided ground strap (wire) as well.
Hmmm. _________________
EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26323 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: 6Volt Battery cable vs. 12Volt battery cable |
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Did anyone mention that with higher voltage, lower current is needed for equivalent electrical function. So 12V systems are OK with thinner wires.... _________________ Andy T.
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I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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