timing struggles continue

[crankbait09]

I have followed two different videos on setting my timing. Although I completely understand what is being instructed to do in order for the timing to be set, what I am failing to understand is why my engine isn't doing what the two videos have told should be happening.

So I am going to explain step by step what I did do get where I am. I have done this procedure three times now, and get different results each time. It is not consistent what so ever. Other than not working properly.

Do you see anything wrong with what I have done?

1. I removed the distributor from the engine and placed it in a bench vise.
2. I placed the points in, and turned the center shaft of the distributor until one of the lobes high points pushed the points out.
3. I used a feeler gauge set at .016 to set the points. Tightened the points down and retested. good to go.
4. Placed the distributor back in the shaft of the engine. (not sure if there was a right and wrong way to go this, but it dropped in all the way). It is not tightened in place yet.
5. I made sure the notch in the distributor was facing towards the #1 cylinder.
6. I made sure one of the lobes on the shaft was still pushing the points completely open (eye balled). I found that shaft turns very easily so it was hard to keep it in place.
7. I made sure the engine was on cylinder 1 by popping off the valve cover and checking that way. I don't trust the distributor to do this, yet.
8. the pulley has two notches, 7.5, and 10 degrees BTDC. It was sitting on 7.5
9.Now that I'm on cylinder 1, I got my $5 test light. Hooked the and of it to the green wire connector that hooks to the coil. I took the probe of the test light and wedged it in between the carb.
10. turn the key of the car, one click, so the dash lights came on.
11. the test light was off at this time.
12. I slowly turned the distributor counter clockwise, and this is where I got varied results. Some times it would come on quickly, and other times not at all, and other times it would come on and never turn off. Once it came on, I backed the distributor up to see if I could get the light to turn off. I had to back it off a whole half revolution for the light to turn off. It didn't match the forward turn I initially did. I tried it again, light came on. I tried backing it off, this time the light never turned off. No matter what I did. So I gave up. I don't understand what I am missing. It seems like such an easy task.

I have a bug me video on this that I tried setting the timing with, and obviously failed at that.

Here is a video that I watched to set timing as well. Which explains my latest issues (typed above)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=787INwvir24

Here is a video showing the last test results for the timing on my engine.
https://flic.kr/p/26ou2SM

I am stumped.
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1963 Ragtop

[67rustavenger]

IIRC you just installed a bunch of tune up parts.
One of them being a condenser. Was your old one working? If so put it back in and try to set the static timing with the old condenser.

Many new condensers are defective right out of the box. I killed one ten minutes after install last year. So I happens!

Follow this link to get your engine running. SpeedyJim has been a life saver for more than one in this small world.
http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/eng_strt.htm

Report back with your results.

Good Luck.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[crankbait09]

Everything was working, but I did not know the history of the parts I had, so I decided to change all so I could have a running record of when and what has been done.

The old condenser is long gone. No clue where that is, in the bottom of a dumpster. Didn't think I should have kept it.

Is there a way to test these condensers so I know right off the bat?
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1963 Ragtop

[David_nc_72std]

[67rustavenger]

[crankbait09]

[iowegian]

[crankbait09]

ok. back at it. i want this done!!

looked in the trash and the old condenser was not as deep in the trash as i thought. Easily accessed. so i have it. after comparing the new bosch condenser, to the old, it does look a little different. Not only does the condenser have a coiled green cable, but it also has made in germany stamped on the housing. It looks rather old. I'm wondering if the PO kept it on their since it worked fine and was of better quality. maybe?

So I swapped the condensers out. Made sure the distributor was fully seated. I began rotating it as instructed. When rotating the housing, I noticed the center shaft moved with it. so everything was at the same time. If I point the center shaft notch towards #1 cylinder and hold it there in place, while I rotate the housing, the light comes on as it should. Once I release the center shaft and turn the housing, everything turns again.

Everything ran before I disassembled this, so it has to be me. Unless this is how the PO did it. but I doubt it.

But cheating and holding the shaft, allows the light to come off and on as it should.

thoughts? (I'm sitting here doing this while i update )

as I continue to have this light consistently come off and on as it should. My issues are surrounding the center shaft not holding still unless I hold it in place. Once I let it go, that's when things change.

......puzzle continues.
I could not get the new bosch distributor cap to fit over the rotor and snap in to place. so i got the old distributor cap, one of those see through red ones that the PO placed on it. That fit perfectly and everything closed up. I compared both caps side by side and they look identical. I see no difference other than one worked and one didn't.

I did buy new plug wires too, but i could not snap them in to the new cap, so did not install them.Everything i got was outfitted for an 009 distributor. But nothing seems to work together. With everything buttoned up, I was gonna try and start the engine. but will wait for some type of feedback. not sure what to expect at this point
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1963 Ragtop

[David_nc_72std]

The distributor shaft should not be turning with the distributor body. Put the rotor on, to use as a handle, and turn the shaft a complete turn and see if it snaps into place on the distributor drive gear. You may have to gently press down on the distributor body while turning the shaft to get it to seat fully. Once it is seated, tighten the distributor clamp enough to hold the distributor down while still allowing the body to rotate enough to make the timing adjustment.

Did you verify the position of the rotor at TDC on cylinder #1 before removing the distributor? If not, then don't be surprised if the rotor ends up pointing in some odd direction - the drive gear, or the drive dog on the distributor shaft, can be installed in an incorrect position, which will change the location of the #1 spark plug wire.

[sjbartnik]

Again, if you can turn the distributor shaft by hand with the distributor installed, the distributor is not fully seated in the drive gear.

The corollary to that is if you turn the distributor body and the distributor shaft turns too, the distributor is not fully seated in the drive gear.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[67rustavenger]

This is a well seated distributor.
If you have a gap between the distributor and the case or clamp. You do not have the dist seated correctly.

Good job retrieving the condenser out of the trash.

Good Luck.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[bluebus86]

condenser can be tested with an ohm meter for shorts

short wire to body of condenser, then attach wire to ohm meter lead, other ohm meter lead to condenser body. watch for momentary conductivity as the condenser charges, then it should go open circuit once condenser is charged. to repeat test, short condenser wire back to body briefly, then repeat the test as needed.


Good Luck, Bug On!
_________________
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Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[KTPhil]

Sometimes that clamp is overtightened, tweaking its shape. it is worth taking it off, and check the actual clamp part for flatness. If that is wavy, you will feel the distributor bottom on it, but it may still hold the distributor up high enough to not catch the drive dog well. I've seen some pretty twisted clamps from careless over tightening.

[crankbait09]

[sjbartnik]

[crankbait09]

I see. For grins, I removed that mounting bracket completely. Dropped the distributor in to place to see what would happen. It dropped in completely, and I could NOT rotate that rotor by hand. It's locked in place.

I pulled the rotor off and the notch on the shaft is now pointing towards cylinder 4. I can rotate the housing and the shaft stays put. I think that's exciting news.

So now. Obviously this clamp is warped. How was the timing ever set prior to me, with this the way it is? I don't get that. I've never seen an original clamp, but I don't believe this clamp is original. There are some scuff marks in the bracket, where it looks like it was bent for the same reason

So at this point, how do I get this distributor pointing in the right direction? Do ilift it out and manually point it in the direction I want it in? Is there a right and wrong way to do this?
_________________
1963 Ragtop

[67rustavenger]

And the distributor cap in not properly seated too.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[Sharp64]

Stop gap is grabbing a hammer and a flat concrete or metal surface and flatten the clamp.

When putting the distributor in, notice that there is a wide and narrow side on either of the tangs on the bottom. Make sure these are properly lined up when putting the distributor in.

On the cap, it only goes on properly one way. Notice the width of the tabs inside the cap will fit only one way properly onto the distributor.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[crankbait09]

[67rustavenger]

Condenser toward the fan shroud. The cap clamp should point to the fuel pump. But that's not a show stopper. It just looks funky the way you currently have it oriented.

Good Luck.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!