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LOWLIGHT FLOOR MATS... THE SOLUTION!
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PeteSC
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

I'm in for 1 complete set in Green.
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lajs57 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Monday Up-Date:

There are 12 confirmed sets. Thank you!

I got a Private Message requesting to clarify that, even if you were in the confirmed list I posted last week, you need to RE-CONFIRM as a backer after the pricing was posted.

I'll wait until the end of the week to see were we are and what can be done.

Cheers!

Luis
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Aussie59Cab
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Re-Confirming Aussie59Cab - (1 x LL8-GY)
Cheers
Paul
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The aussie Trimmer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

From my own endeavours to make these floor coverings; the most problematic parts to make are the front firewall, Door sill covers and the tunnel.

Reason being these covers are moulded in a shaped 2 part (front and back) mould, not a flat mould like all the floor mats and this mould would have to be made of a very ridged product, as the cavity is only 1/8th of an inch in some places.

I have been making the half front mat and the scuff pads to complete the carpet sets I do, but gave up on trying to do the front fire wall etc covers.

To make these moulds they would have to be locked together and suspended; then the 2 part product, once mixed would have to be injected under pressure into the mould from the lowest corner until it reaches the top and left for 24 hrs to cure.

The factory would have used a 3 part mould pressed down over the main mould; the face of the mould would have been sprayed with a colour pigmented rubber solution, the 2nd part product would have been a raw rubber sheet form or spray solution, when heated to a precise temperature it, would have been laid over or sprayed into the mould then closed.

This procedure would produce a full bulkhead cover faster as once the mould was pressed closed and cooled the cover would come out (there could be some trimming to size at this stage) and a new procedure would begin.

I commend the efforts of anyone who takes on the task of trying to replicate this challenge; and hope that they do succeed, as this is really a labour of love and not something you will ever get rich on.

Its a one time production and if you think its easy or going to be cheap, think again.

you are being offered a chance to have the love of your life complete, with the"Perfect original" floor coverings it was meant to have, if you calculated the time and money you have already put into the Ghia this would be cheap in comparison.
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Aussietrimmer is putting it in a very nice way, but I have to say I'm not too surprised that so many people who said they want this product have failed at this point to make a commitment to pay what it takes to get it. But then this is why most early Ghias are lacking the correct parts needed to do these cars even though the values have gone up. Seems a fair amount of the lowlight crowd would rather spend the same amount or more on played out earlies and settle for a cheapass TMI loop carpet kit.
Hopefully I will be proven wrong.
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1956 Ghia
1969 Ghia Convertible
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 crusty double cab
1960 convertible bug
1963 356 B coupe runner
1963 356 B coupe
1962 356 B Coupe
1967 21 window rust bucket
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calexican
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Reconfirming for LL1GY AND LL2GY thanks.
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swanlakers
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Im in for at least 1 full grey set
Final price will determine if I get a spare
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lajs57 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Hello all,

I 'm thankful with Kevin for what he just posted. He is so right in his comments. Making the mats, specially the Front Panel mat, is a challenge. Before I committed to go ahead with the project, I went to to a company that specializes in mold making. They are real experts on this field and developed a line of products for making molds and molded parts. Kevin described the process to make the mold and producing the mats very, very close to the way I will do it, the only difference is that I won't inject the rubber under pressure. This company developed a sprayer/mixer system that quickly deposits material with the correct consistency, so that it won't drip, creating a uniform layer in the front mold, that first receives the thin spayed color pigmented rubber solution, that will bond with the thicker layer and then the rear mold is positioned in place using guide pins.
This process takes only few minutes, and it wouldn't be possible without the correct technology and equipment, that fortunately exist. Before they told me that making this mat was technically possible, I was not sure if the project was feasible.
Initially I was not planning in making the complete 8 pieces set, but after many of you requesting that, now I think is the best approach, as I will be making 2 parts molds for all pieces, having a 2-color/2-textured sides mat set, "just like the original".
As Kevin mentioned, the original mats were made with an industrial method using rubber sheets pressed together, that is just impossible to replicate, unless we were making thousands of sets!
BTW, Kevin makes the most beautiful and "just like original" interiors I have ever seen. He made a one time production run of the cloth inserts for Low Light seats, that I was so lucky to get for my seats!

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Thank you Kevin!
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Chris Andersen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:48 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Reconfirming 1 x LL8-BN

Cheers
Chris
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Tall Bloke
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Count me in for LL8 -GY.

In the event of not reaching your target for the break even point - would you consider producing just the front panel mat as this is the holly grail for LL owners ?
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boinkffd
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Reconfirming 1x LL1-GY
1x LL2-GY
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lonotch
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Confirming 1 LL1-BK
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technik
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

LL8-GY thanks!
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lajs57 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Friday Up-Date:

We have 25 Confirmed backers!

This means that just about half of the original confirmed members are willing to back this project.

I appreciate that many of you are with me. I want to convert this dream into a reality, so I reworked my numbers to be able to have a green light and start the manufacturing!

In order to lower the price and the minimum number of orders to start a successful well funded project, I did the following adjustments:

As an engineer I know that there are technical trade-offs that can lower the cost. The recommended rigidity/flexibility radio of molds is important for multi-use molds. Initially I calculated the minimum mold thickness as recommended to 1 inch. I determined that lowering this by 30% will still be ok, as we are not making hundreds of pieces per mold. I talked with the molding company and they confirmed that this is fine. The mats don't have areas that require the mold to be extensively flexed to release the parts. This saved 30% in the material cost of the molds!

We can save another 5% on the final price by using PayPal instead of Kickstarter, as the fee is 2.9% instead of 8%! Besides, PayPal has a more robust customer security system, as I won't get any of the payment security information and all transactions have PayPal Purchase Protection, which covers all transactions. So, if your order is a no-show or doesnt match the description, they will help you get a full refund. And they take care of international payments with other currencies. And you can use PayPal to pay with a card, even if you don't have an account with them.
I reflected this by lowering the risk factor from .33 to .25.

I also lowered the tooling cost, for I will make the station tables in the wood shop of a friend instead of buying them. Additionally, I will use a lower cost compressor and have a simpler temperature controller chamber for curing.

Finally, I lowered the rental facility to 60 days instead of 90 days, as I will do the initial mold making process in my garage (4-6 weeks). And I will only hire one worker to help me.

So, the new plan looks like this:


PRODUCT: Double Layer/Double Color set of Low Light Karmann Ghia rubber mats. The color layer won't be a dye, but a fade resistant, flexible, and permanent layer.

FIX COSTS:

MOLDS required: 14
(Molds considered are 2-part molds, with guide posts and inserts for orifices. All are 30" wide for an efficient production flow )

(24x30x.07)*4 For 2 Front Floor Mats
(19x30x0.7)*4 For 2 Rear Floor Mats
(42x30x0.7)*2 For Sill mats ( Molded simultaneously)
(56x30x1.4)*2 For Tunnel Mat
(78x30x4.2)*2 For Front Panel Mat
Total of 29,736 cubic inches of materials @ $0.3 per cubic inch = $8,920.80.00
Engineering/Consulting/CAD/Labor @ $500 per mat =$3,500
Total: $12,420.00

SEMI-INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTION LINE

Preparing Station (x2)
Spraying Station (x2)
Dispensing Station (x1)
Curing Station (x1)
Cleaning Station (x1)
Compress Air/ Pressurized Water / Special spraying equipment /Oven /Industrial Precision Balance
Budget $7,000.00

RENT & SALARIES
Duration of Project = 60 days
Facilities @ 1500 per month x3 = $3,000
Labor 1 persons @15/hour x 60 days = 7,200.00
Total = $10,200.00

Total Fix Cost for 3 months = $29,620.00

COST PER LL8 set:

Volume = 887 cubic inches
@ $0.6 per cubic inch including mat materials, waste and production consumables = $532.20
A risk factor of 0.25 for total cost = $665.00


PRICE SCENARIOS:

100 Sets
29,620/ 100 = 296.20 + 665 = $961.20
(even break point = 86 orders)

50 Sets
29,620 / 50 = 592.40 + 665 = $1,257.40
(even break point = 44 orders)

30 Sets
29,620 / 30 = 987.33 + 665 = $1,652.33
(even break point = 27 orders)

So we are a couple of orders short to have a green light!

Also, if you are a member that have not commit yet, but showed interest, see that, for the next bracket of a minimum of 44 backers, the price will drop to $1,257.40. This will benefit everyone!

***If you would back the project at that price, please post your desire or send me a PM ASAP. We will then see if that price is a possibility or not. There will NOT be a later opportunity once the reproduction process has started***

I'm working on setting a GoDaddy webpage, where we can make the project structured and transparent to all. I am surprised of how much I advanced building the site in one day! The name is going to be www.LowLightWerks.com

This weekend I won't have much time to respond, as I am leaving shortly to help my daughter to relocate from Providence RI to Freehold NJ. She got a promotion at her job:)

Next week we should finalize the talking and start the doing!

Have a great weekend!

Luis

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Last edited by lajs57 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:45 am; edited 3 times in total
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boinkffd
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Luis, thank you for the continue commitment and passion on this project. Looking forward to the final piece to the build.
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technik
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Great work mate, we'll get the numbers...
You'll find a professionally made full carpet set will you back more than $1257.40!
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

technik wrote:
Great work mate, we'll get the numbers...
You'll find a professionally made full carpet set will you back more than $1257.40!


Exactly. It's a no brainer. Maybe it's a trust issue on some people's part or maybe they thought it's the '90s and they could get a complete set of mats for $500. Rolling Eyes
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Go Reds! Smash state!

My retirement plan:
1956 Ghia
1969 Ghia Convertible
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 crusty double cab
1960 convertible bug
1963 356 B coupe runner
1963 356 B coupe
1962 356 B Coupe
1967 21 window rust bucket
1967 912
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technik
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

your transparency should quash any trust issues unlike that THIEF that was making the floor mats.
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didiKg55
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Hello Luis,

I'm restoring a december 1955 and i need also the floor mats.

For mine is the bulkheadmat half carpet and half rubber .

The heater channels are with carpet.

So i need the bulkheadmat,tunnel- en 4 floormats.

The car comes in Gazellebeige , the mats in beige-brown

Grtz.Didier
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lajs57 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Hello All!

Just arriving from New Jersey! The move from Providence RI took my daughter and I a little more time and effort that planned, but she is all set!

I will write an update shortly and answer the open questions.

Cheers,

Luis
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