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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3897
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| . . . I am looking at Bumblebus' immaculate rear brake assembly, and I see no chance of the lever ever reaching the wheel bearing housing ... |
It looks to me like the parking brake cable has not been installed?
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Stuartzickefoose
Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: |
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maybe the arms on the trailing show are a bit shorter than they once were, or are different lengths, causing it to drag the cable a bit?
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
| Amskeptic wrote: |
| . . . I am looking at Bumblebus' immaculate rear brake assembly, and I see no chance of the lever ever reaching the wheel bearing housing ... |
It looks to me like the parking brake cable has not been installed? |
True . . . go ahead and sticky it.
Senility, a terrible to thing to . . . what was I talking about?
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Cleanest brakes I've ever seen! Is that a new, painted, or powdercoated backing plate, by the way?
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BruceJ
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 236
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
NOTE:
The '72 and early '73 ebrakes had a peculiar issue with brake shoes that are not at full *thickness*. I have happened across cheap new shoes that scrimp on lining thickness, and you must also be aware of this problem as your linings wear.
The lever that is pulled by the cable will hit the wheel bearing housing as the shoes wear. A shoe adjustment will not fix it. Tightening the ebrake cables will not fix it. As a matter of fact, I have visited buses with a tight ebrake handle that doesn't even bother slowing the car down. You need to grind the inner edge of the lever in a nice smooth crescent around the wheel bearing housing to maintain ebrake function as your shoes wear.
Colin |
^ This has me thinking, but I'm not sure if this is what I'm facing.
To summarize, the brakes on my '72 work wonderfully -- nice pedal, no asymmetrical pulling, no pulsing, no leaks, stops firmly, etc.. But I noticed that the parking brake was not up to snuff. The left side locks tight and good, but zero action on the right. So yesterday I replaced the right side cable, adjusted the brakes, then adjusted to lever to 6 clicks, as per Bentley. Alas, same darn thing! Left side parking brake great, right side zilch, impossible to adjust out.
So my question is, why might this only be an issue on one side? Granted, the shoes are not new (showing between 3-4mm of material left -- it's on the list, but for the short term only), but the wear is even side-to-side, and front shoe to rear shoe. I would think that if the lever were fouling on the hub, both sides would be affected?
Should I just go ahead and replace the shoes on both sides right away? Or, if I have to take the grinder to the actuating lever, any guidance on how much material to remove? Or could the drums be worn to the point where the new shoes won't help much (I didn't have a way to measure the ID inside of the small ridge handy yesterday)? It's a VERY original Bus and I'm hesitant to grind anything, but if I gotta I gotta 
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1965 Beetle
1972 Westfalia |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3897
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:40 am Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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| BruceJ wrote: |
| Impossible to adjust out. |
Could you explain this? Surely, if you keep tightening the right-side cable nut at the equalization bar, the brakes will begin to grab?
Also, I don't understand your claim to have adjusted the P.B.: If both sides are not grabbing firmly at six clicks, then they are, by
definition, not adjusted?
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BruceJ
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 236
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
| BruceJ wrote: |
| Impossible to adjust out. |
Could you explain this? Surely, if you keep tightening the right-side cable nut at the equalization bar, the brakes will begin to grab?
Also, I don't understand your claim to have adjusted the P.B.: If both sides are not grabbing firmly at six clicks, then they are, by
definition, not adjusted? |
Ok, sorry, maybe I wasn't clear . . . I "attempted" to adjust the parking brake. And you're right: at six clicks, the left one is coming on; around eight I can't pull the lever any more and the left side is locked. But the right is still spinning freely. This is with the "equalizer bar" 90 degrees to the rod that comes back from the handbrake lever, as it's supposed to be. But even if I tighten the right one down all the way, still no parking brake on the right side.
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1965 Beetle
1972 Westfalia |
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1109
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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Tighten the adjusters all the way out so that both wheels are locked,go to the front and check the point where both cables are attached to the equalizer,they should both be loose,now tighten them so you have equal tension on both cables,now go back and back off the adjusters a equal amount until the wheels turn ,if they drag a little it ok,now test the hand brake,and recheck the tension at the equalizer.
Edit--Before tightening the cables,pull the part brake on a couple of clicks and release it after adjusting the cables,do this so you don't have to over come the tension when backing off the adjusters.
Good luck;Nelson
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1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3897
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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Hmm, this doesn't seem to be a shoe or drum wear problem. Neither is it a lever-hits-hub problem as laid out by Amskeptic, because that wouldn't prevent the cable from tightening up at the equalizer bar.
Lots of possibilities left: wrong cable? , lever or push bar not actually attached to shoes? shoes way out of adjustment? Only the
dude-on-the-spot can determine.
I wouldn't put too much importance on having the eq. bar "horizontal" (as the Bentley puts it). None of my former Type I cars, nor
either of the 2 Type 2 parking brake systems I've dealt with have ever exhibited such nicely symmetric behavior, even with all new
parts. All functioned fine, though.
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BruceJ
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 236
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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OKay, thanks all for the advice. It's on the back burner for now but when I get more time I'll have another look-see.
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1965 Beetle
1972 Westfalia |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22631
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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How do you guys get through inspection without parking brakes? You won't get on the road in NY with this
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kooper271
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2016
Posts: 337
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| How do you guys get through inspection without parking brakes? You won't get on the road in NY with this |
Here in Ohio there is no inspection unless a car is applying for a rebuilt title. Only residents of a few counties have to pass emission requirements as well. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22631
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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| kooper271 wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| How do you guys get through inspection without parking brakes? You won't get on the road in NY with this |
Here in Ohio there is no inspection unless a car is applying for a rebuilt title. Only residents of a few counties have to pass emission requirements as well. |
Yikes.
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BruceJ
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 236
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| How do you guys get through inspection without parking brakes? You won't get on the road in NY with this |
Yeah, no kidding! I'm from NY originally. Learned to drive in a '75 Beetle and that's what I drove there in NY, in winter, etc.. And while some of my "repairs" then were dodgy, I somehow got it passed. Quite frankly, though I've been here in GA for a while now, I find it appalling what some people are driving around with (or without). The reason my parking brake is on the back burner is because now I'm having problems with the engine itself (a whole other issue) but yes, I'm not comfy with having only half of a parking brake and I intend to fix it pronto.
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CarlosZ
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2016
Posts: 319
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know where to get a replacement of #28? Its the same diameter, but a little longer than #23. The C-clip broke and the pivot pin fell out and was being ground down by the brakes. There's an ad for a complete rear brake assembly, but only need the single part. '72 bus. I emailed both Ken @ The Bus CO. and Chris @ Busted Bus just in case. Thanks!
Last edited by CarlosZ on Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KentABQ 
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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This should help, CarlosZ...
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211609601B
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-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
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CarlosZ
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2016
Posts: 319
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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I checked that out, but no dice. The '72 spreader bar uses two pivot pins of same diameter, but different lengths. I need the longer of the two. Thanks for looking out.
Looks like the little groove got ground down or perhaps it was a replacement pin with no groove that a PO slapped it together with.
Might have to consider buying another '72 just for parts.
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dualbay
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2018
Posts: 108
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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| BruceJ wrote: |
| kreemoweet wrote: |
| BruceJ wrote: |
| Impossible to adjust out. |
Could you explain this? Surely, if you keep tightening the right-side cable nut at the equalization bar, the brakes will begin to grab?
Also, I don't understand your claim to have adjusted the P.B.: If both sides are not grabbing firmly at six clicks, then they are, by
definition, not adjusted? |
Ok, sorry, maybe I wasn't clear . . . I "attempted" to adjust the parking brake. And you're right: at six clicks, the left one is coming on; around eight I can't pull the lever any more and the left side is locked. But the right is still spinning freely. This is with the "equalizer bar" 90 degrees to the rod that comes back from the handbrake lever, as it's supposed to be. But even if I tighten the right one down all the way, still no parking brake on the right side. |
Make sure that the lever arm is mounted into the correct hole in the brake shoe - if you look at the posted pictures there are usually two holes at the top of the shoe - if you were to install in the wrong hole then the arm will have significantly less leverage and therefore will seem as if it runs out of adjustment. |
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KentABQ
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: 72 westy rear brake drums***HELP |
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| CarlosZ wrote: |
I checked that out, but no dice. The '72 spreader bar uses two pivot pins of same diameter, but different lengths. I need the longer of the two. Thanks for looking out.
Looks like the little groove got ground down or perhaps it was a replacement pin with no groove that a PO slapped it together with.
Might have to consider buying another '72 just for parts.
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I was thinking yours is a late bay.
When I replaced Chloe's brakes over a year ago, I didn't have those WolfWest pins, and just used an equivalent sized bolt with threadlock on the nut. A couple weeks ago, I checked the brakes, and the bolts were still functioning. Next time I have the brakes apart, though, I'm putting in the pins.
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-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
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