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SparksLP
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2009
Posts: 213
Location: Ohio
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 Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Alternator conversion questions |
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Hi gang!
I have a '66 Bug that the P.O. put a 1600DP out of a '73 into. Whole car is converted to 12v, but it still has a generator. I'm looking into converting to an alternator as the generator isn't charging well despite changing brushes/checked wiring/etc. Someone told me that the alternator should just mount right up to my engine, but I was under the impression that I need a new stand/pully and a riser for my carb (34Pict). Is this correct, or do I need to order one of the complete mounting kits?
Picture for reference.
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Tom
1966 VW Beetle Sunroof Sedan |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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an alternator needs an alternator stand but a generator will fit both. The pic looks like a generator stand.
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Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked  |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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34 PICT clearance depends on the accel pump linkage on your carb. Someimes its really close and a little grinding on the alternator case takes care of it.
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4407
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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you can use the generator fuel pump but... if you want to be able to take it in and out they make a shorter alternator friendly fuel pump that has more clearance for removal and replacement later on. the alternator friendly fuel pump uses a shorter rod as well so don't forget to switch the fuel pump rod if you go that route. I put an alternator on mine and I like it. Also, the alternator I have does not use the voltage regulator that was under the passenger rear seat. So I removed that and hooked the wires from the where the regulator was together in some particular way. There are threads on that wiring modification and it was not hard at all.
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
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Buggeee
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Joined: December 22, 2016
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Location: Stuck in Ohio
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SparksLP
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2009
Posts: 213
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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Ok, thanks guys! I thought I would need to get the kit, any way to tell a generator stand from the alternator stand? And do you guys know if the kits would come with spacers for the carb if I need it?
The paint is Coral from the early 2000's Thunderbird ('03 or '04?) that the previous owner had it painted, the car was originally Sea Blue I believe.
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Tom
1966 VW Beetle Sunroof Sedan |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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generator left, alternator right from the gallery
I don't think the kits come with the spacer?
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
| maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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There is a part number that identifies it. Look at someplace like CIP1.com and you will probably find it. You may or may not need a spacer. If you need one, you may have clearance problems with your air cleaner. Also, if using a spacer, you may be able to have it milled down shorter, which can help.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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SparksLP
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2009
Posts: 213
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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Awesome, thanks guys!
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Tom
1966 VW Beetle Sunroof Sedan |
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Agent47
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posts: 271
Location: Scott AFB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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The other things that would be helpful is a 2x2 spade connector, and one or two 1x1s (cannot remember off the top of my head). That will allow you to bypass the voltage regulator.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24733
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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FYI if you are running one or more high wattage electrical items then the alternator will help.
If the system is basically stock it is very likely not going to help, because there is something wrong in the electrical system.
Could be even just a missing or dirty/corroded body to transaxle cable.
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SparksLP
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2009
Posts: 213
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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No crazy electric stuff yet, but eventually. I figure future proofing can't hurt.
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Tom
1966 VW Beetle Sunroof Sedan |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24733
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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| SparksLP wrote: |
| No crazy electric stuff yet, but eventually. I figure future proofing can't hurt. |
Then you would be better off then fixing what you have now.
Problem with alternators is they are not good at surviving sudden changes in electrical demand and can go bad due to that. Generators on the other hand will survive a lot of abuse.
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31360
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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I'd just troubleshoot and fix what you have. Has to be generator or voltage regulator or the wiring.
Do you have a good ground for the regulator? Is that it on the right hand side of engine compartment? If so, I'd super check for good grounding, maybe run a supplemental ground wire to the regulator !!!
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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SparksLP
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2009
Posts: 213
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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Yeah, regulator is on the right side of the engine bay, which I thought was weird. I'll double check the grounding on it, make sure it's good. I didn't think about the regulator not being ground well. Not much of an electrician...
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Tom
1966 VW Beetle Sunroof Sedan |
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Agent47
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2016
Posts: 271
Location: Scott AFB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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Hard to tell in the picture but is your generator being grounded through the strap? There should be a ground hole on the body of the generator. I put dielectric grease on every electrical connector I touch, including grounding points. I have found they can corrode very quickly.
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| ... The VW beetle is the cockroach of the automotive world, no matter how many are killed, there always seems to be 100s more lurking in all the cracks & crevices. |
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
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Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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| Agent47 wrote: |
| There should be a ground hole on the body of the generator. |
Yes, this ground wire should be connected too, and if not present, run a ground wire there too.
Is that regulator mounted to the METAL on the side wall or just the tar board? Run good ground wires to both !
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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| SparksLP wrote: |
| ... any way to tell a generator stand from the alternator stand? |
This pic highlights the difference in the stands:
The larger diameter area of the alternator body needs part of the stand to be cut back so it fits. The smaller diameter area is the same as the generator so the straight body of the generator will fit onto the alternator stand.
| SparksLP wrote: |
| And do you guys know if the kits would come with spacers for the carb if I need it? |
I don't think I've seen any kits that come with the carb spacer. They need to be purchased separately (if needed).
If your carb is from a '74 Beetle or is aftermarket it may already be set up for alternator use. The linkage for the accelerator pump was changed when VW switched to alternators. The carb spacer is designed to lift the carb up to avoid the generator carb's accelerator pump linkage from contacting the alternator body. This pic shows the alternator linkage (generator linkage is the dotted lines). And "no" they are not the same linkage just rotated 90-deg. If you have a carb with generator linkage you will need to source an alternator linkage (or a whole carb w/ the proper linkage).
Another option... grind the case of the alternator body to allow room for the generator linkage to move freely.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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Why do it? EVERY one of our drivers (5) except one have the alternator conversion, plus both future projects. I like the added power and simplicity. If doing it, get a good alternator. I use Bosch and have put over 30,000 miles on my 65 bug so far with it.....
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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SparksLP
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2009
Posts: 213
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator conversion questions |
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The regulator is mounted to the metal part, not just tar board. All the other wires look good. Would it be worth buying a cheap regulator and see if that fixes the problem? I won't be converting to the alternator for a few weeks, my brother in law has all the tools I need for dropping the motor and whatnot. Maybe swapping that out would tell me if it's the wires or something else. None of the wires are original, everything is black, so whoever converted it just spliced stuff together...
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Tom
1966 VW Beetle Sunroof Sedan |
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