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electronictofu
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 935
Location: Sacramento
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 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Should read between .2 to 4 ohms but 5 isn't that far up. Can't you just try another coil to eliminate that? |
I am going to order a new Bosch coil, it's less than 50 bucks, might as well throw a new one on and have an emergency spare, even if this one is toast I know it'll do a few miles  I didn't have much of 2k on this coil though, sucks when the simple things put out.
Fuel pump:
Yeah I read that before, a lot of cheapies or new aftermarket pumps are a bit too high. I had a regulator for a while but removed it, honestly I forget why. I'll check the pressure when the new one arrives. |
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Juan
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Joined: September 01, 2003
Posts: 878
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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Interesting thread. I've been having somewhat similar issues. My gas gauge doesn't work so need to look into that (sending unit was replaced a few years ago so I think it's good). But I end up filling the bus every couple of outings to be sure I stay filled up, and many times I only get a couple gallons in and the hose cuts off, as if the tank were full. Still the other day the bus died on me (luckily only a couple blocks away from home). A buddy of mine says when filling it up, to separate the hose a little bit from the tank hole, as sometimes fumes might get trapped and the pump might cut off, leaving me to think I've filled up when in reality I haven't.
Gonna keep following this thread.
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22665
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:02 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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I’m not following. Gas in the carb is working so the ignition system looks ok at least.
Have you checked your fuel bowls in the carbs? If crap has gunked up your carbs your needle valves can be plugged which will choke off fuel
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electronictofu
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 935
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Have you checked your fuel bowls in the carbs? If crap has gunked up your carbs your needle valves can be plugged which will choke off fuel |
It seems to die once the engine gets hot consistently, not sure if that would affect needle valves consistently, wouldn't it just be running funky overall? Regardless im sure it's a good thing to check and clean. I'll peep them out for sure after the fuel pump and new coil. |
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Suboval
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2003
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| electronictofu wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
Have you checked your fuel bowls in the carbs? If crap has gunked up your carbs your needle valves can be plugged which will choke off fuel |
It seems to die once the engine gets hot consistently, not sure if that would affect needle valves consistently, wouldn't it just be running funky overall? Regardless im sure it's a good thing to check and clean. I'll peep them out for sure after the fuel pump and new coil. |
My wife's bus had the exact same symptoms and it turned out to be a intermittently bad condenser – a new condenser with a green wire.
I swapped out the condenser with a black wire condenser off of an old distributor and it runs fine.
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| electronictofu wrote: |
| It seems to die once the engine gets hot consistently,... |
Without rereading all the thread, how close or tit-ed are your points? If the gap is really teeny it will act like that when it gets hot. |
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electronictofu
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 935
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| Suboval wrote: |
| electronictofu wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
Have you checked your fuel bowls in the carbs? If crap has gunked up your carbs your needle valves can be plugged which will choke off fuel |
It seems to die once the engine gets hot consistently, not sure if that would affect needle valves consistently, wouldn't it just be running funky overall? Regardless im sure it's a good thing to check and clean. I'll peep them out for sure after the fuel pump and new coil. |
My wife's bus had the exact same symptoms and it turned out to be a intermittently bad condenser – a new condenser with a green wire.
I swapped out the condenser with a black wire condenser off of an old distributor and it runs fine. |
With the new fuel pump going on this weekend, and the new coil, new fuel filter, and I'll snag a condenser too, since they are so cheap things should be back to normal. I'll check the points when I replace the condenser, I've never done it so it'll be some new knowledge, seems fairly simple.
I have a Bosch 019 distributor, I got it off here a few years ago rebuilt. I am going to order a condenser, it looks like Bosch 02006 is the correct one, or one of the condensers that'll work?
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-02006-Ignition-Conden...+condenser
Excited to get back on the road! Lots of great info here. |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| If you can, only fix one thing at a time, or you'll never know what it was. Just look at the points' gap before you pull them and see where they're at. |
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electronictofu
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 935
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| For sure Barry. I was actually going to mention that I should do things one at a time, starting with the easiest, checking gap is a good call. Then I'll start swapping a few of these little parts. Good call! |
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Harleyelf
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Joined: April 23, 2009
Posts: 1572
Location: Appleton, WI
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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To check the sock in the tank, drain the tank into a gas can through the fuel line that goes to the fuel pump. If you have debris floating around, it will slow or stop the flow after a few minutes. If you remove the fuel outlet from the tank, remember there is a pint or two of fuel left after the tube drains all it can reach, use a parts pan big enough to catch it all. The sock is a three dollar part.
To check the ignition, hold the coil output wire a quarter inch away from the distributor while someone cranks the motor over. It should throw a strong blue spark.
Fuel, fire, compression. If you have all three the motor will run. You have compression or it would never run. Your problem must be fuel or fire.
I adjust the output pressure by grinding the steel rod until the pressure drops. I used to stack gaskets under the phenolic rod guide, but this way I don't have to buy extra parts. |
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electronictofu
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 935
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| Harleyelf wrote: |
Fuel, fire, compression. If you have all three the motor will run. You have compression or it would never run. Your problem must be fuel or fire.
I adjust the output pressure by grinding the steel rod until the pressure drops. I used to stack gaskets under the phenolic rod guide, but this way I don't have to buy extra parts. |
Thanks! So true, so simple. I'll be checking everything and have all my extra parts this weekend. Can someone recommend a DIY or inexpensive way to check the fuel pressure? I don't currently have a gauge. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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Buy a fuel pressure gauge and a "T" fitting to fit your fuel line. Install and check pressure.
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scottvw
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2004
Posts: 2821
Location: Centennial, CO
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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If you pull the sock out of the fuel tank, I would recommend not replacing it. It traps crap in your tank where you cannot remove it. If crap gets in your tank, a good fuel filter will catch it. I had a similar issue and it happened to be junk in the fuel filter. I couldn't see the issue because it was so close to the hose. I replaced the fuel filter and no issues.
Also, make sure your fuel line is not resting on the tranny. There are tabs to hold it up. I had an issue were the transmission would get hot and boil the fuel. I didn't see the tabs originally and had no idea it would do that.
Keep us posted. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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You can also do searches of the forums for this kind of stuff.
Did a search for "Fuel Pressure" and searched all the forums at once. Checked the "Titles Only" box so as to cut down on having way too many results.
Got this:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200
Down on the first page found a real good one quickly, that also lists possible manufactures of the tools to buy.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| scottvw wrote: |
If you pull the sock out of the fuel tank, I would recommend not replacing it. It traps crap in your tank where you cannot remove it. If crap gets in your tank, a good fuel filter will catch it. I had a similar issue and it happened to be junk in the fuel filter. I couldn't see the issue because it was so close to the hose. I replaced the fuel filter and no issues.
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Well that is the whole point of the filter in there. Without you run a far better chance of having debris block off the fuel flow.
New a fellow who liked to add a bottle of additive now and then. Then he started to have a problem of the engine shutting down randomly, and starting up a while later. The more the tank was empty, the more the problem happened. Turned out he had pulled open the safety seal on the bottle of additive, but not pulled it all the way off. While pouring the additive the safety seal came the rest of the way off. Seal floated around and would get sucked down...
Heard of another owner of a 1960s USA made car that had similar problem since new. Finally found the problem when restoring the car just a few years ago and a condom was found in the gas tank. Can only guess that manufacture did not bother with an in tank filter.
Personally over a dozen VWs we have driven and well over probably 400,000 miles of driving VWs have only had one time that the in tank filter was clogged up. That was because the fuel in the half full tank of the 1963 SC was completely jelled after sitting for over eight years in the Texas heat. Took the outlet and filter out. Ran a long big screwdriver up thru the jelled fuel and swung the screwdriver around on a big arc in the tank so as to cut a cone shape thru the jelled fuel. Installed new tank filter and the outlet. Drove it that way for years, never had a problem, and all the while you could smell the varnish thru the exhaust.....
The in tank fuel filter has a huge surface area in comparison to the outlet pipe, and is much taller so should stay above any collected crud in the tank. So is unlikely to get clogged up enough to shut off fuel flow. Could only see it getting clogged if one has the habit of tossing hand fulls of something like sand or sawdust in there.
On the other hand, do consider cutting down the outlet pipe so as to get out all water out of the gas tank so it does not rust up in that lower pocket of the tank. A lot easier to just pull the carb float drain out if need be.
Good time to add in a reserve switch at same time. Then you can have a gallon or so of fuel in reserve and shut off fuel flow when pulling engine or replacing flex fuel lines.
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Last edited by Eric&Barb on Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:27 am; edited 2 times in total |
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electronictofu
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 935
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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Since I started driving my bus and rebuilt everything I did put in a brand new fuel tank, that doesn't mean there isn't crud in there however, but maybe less likely? Or maybe new tanks need to be blown out with air first? It looked clean, but who knows with all the little micro particles that could be in a new part. I'll keep an eye on this as an option.
All great info. Hopefully back to normal this weekend. |
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BusJunky
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009
Posts: 568
Location: Norwalk, ohio
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| Suboval wrote: |
| electronictofu wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
Have you checked your fuel bowls in the carbs? If crap has gunked up your carbs your needle valves can be plugged which will choke off fuel |
It seems to die once the engine gets hot consistently, not sure if that would affect needle valves consistently, wouldn't it just be running funky overall? Regardless im sure it's a good thing to check and clean. I'll peep them out for sure after the fuel pump and new coil. |
My wife's bus had the exact same symptoms and it turned out to be a intermittently bad condenser – a new condenser with a green wire.
I swapped out the condenser with a black wire condenser off of an old distributor and it runs fine. |
Ive been thru his exact same symptoms on several occasions. Its been the condensor every time. The duralast ones never last long, but its a simple exchange for a new one and I never have to wait for shipping. On one occasion, the little E-clip came off my points and threw the points arm out of whack. He stated he has a new gas tank, the fuel filter looks clean and the carbs are newer as well. If his carbs dont like a extra psi or two of fuel pressure, it would of ran like shit from the get-go.
I always bring a extra known good distributor with me. I use a scratch-all and make a mark on the distributor clamp then I set timing and make a mark on the distributor perfect with the mark on the clamp. Then if for what ever reason I need to swap distributors, i can drop the other one right in, line up the mArks and drive away perfectly timed. It elimintates the need for excessive tools in the bus. So if you do not have a timing light or a friend who does and can help, either buy one or make sure you mark the distributor and clamp before you pull it to change the condensor. I have a good feeling you’ll be patched up this weekend.
Cheers.
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electronictofu
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 935
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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| BusJunky wrote: |
| Suboval wrote: |
| electronictofu wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
Have you checked your fuel bowls in the carbs? If crap has gunked up your carbs your needle valves can be plugged which will choke off fuel |
It seems to die once the engine gets hot consistently, not sure if that would affect needle valves consistently, wouldn't it just be running funky overall? Regardless im sure it's a good thing to check and clean. I'll peep them out for sure after the fuel pump and new coil. |
My wife's bus had the exact same symptoms and it turned out to be a intermittently bad condenser – a new condenser with a green wire.
I swapped out the condenser with a black wire condenser off of an old distributor and it runs fine. |
Ive been thru his exact same symptoms on several occasions. Its been the condensor every time. The duralast ones never last long, but its a simple exchange for a new one and I never have to wait for shipping. On one occasion, the little E-clip came off my points and threw the points arm out of whack. He stated he has a new gas tank, the fuel filter looks clean and the carbs are newer as well. If his carbs dont like a extra psi or two of fuel pressure, it would of ran like shit from the get-go.
I always bring a extra known good distributor with me. I use a scratch-all and make a mark on the distributor clamp then I set timing and make a mark on the distributor perfect with the mark on the clamp. Then if for what ever reason I need to swap distributors, i can drop the other one right in, line up the mArks and drive away perfectly timed. It elimintates the need for excessive tools in the bus. So if you do not have a timing light or a friend who does and can help, either buy one or make sure you mark the distributor and clamp before you pull it to change the condensor. I have a good feeling you’ll be patched up this weekend.
Cheers. |
I appreciate all the help from everyone. After chatting and diagnosing, I think it will end up being the condenser, process of elimination. Even if some of us are pro's it's good to rehash some of these parts and topics.
Thanks Junky! I like your train of thought. I'll post in a day or two with the results. No matter what it was it's a good reminder to keep some inexpensive backups on the shelf or in the bus.
Excited to get driving again. |
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electronictofu
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 935
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Bus dying/ Engine and fuel issue? |
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I'm trying to test in phases this weekend, new fuel pump and fuel filter (old one seemed pretty clean) but needed to ditch the glass anyways. My Condenser arrives in the mail today, so I'll test with the new fuel components before putting the condenser on (I already swapped my coil which tested a bit high, and haven't ran anything yet)
The bottom lever or valve, whatever it's called on the old fuel pump definitely stuck out a bit more than the new one, still thinking the main issue is electrical but I do think the old fuel pump was pumping too much gas/ too high psi, Im getting a pressure gauge this week, so I can't test the only fuel pump at this point, but moving forward I'll know the numbers.
Oldie:
Newbie:
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