...2 new Gland nuts, 2 diff. washers?

[dennismcd707]

I recently purchased 2 new gland nuts, and for some reason one of them has a nice big fat washer, and the other has the smaller and real wavy washer. What gives? Which one should I use? Shouldn't they both be the same type?
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[Cusser]

I believe that the bigger washer is more heavy duty, use that one.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Dale M.]

One on left looks like heavy duty chomemoly gland nut and washer, one on right looks like standard replacement (stock) ....

Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[empi3]

The one on the left MIGHT be the mysterious

111 105 297 A ......"Spacer 1.4 mm — Reconditioned flywheel" 111 105 271 —X.......(see VW Parts Service Bulletin X-21)

Also those are two different nuts

Steven
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The fact someone posts a thousand messages a month does not mean the messages contain anything worth reading.
Bob Hoover

1970 Beetle
1956 Ragtop Beetle

[FreeBug]

I think CB up-rated gland nuts are 38mm, if it's 36mm ( looks like it ), I would suspect Berg, the washer looks like Berg, too. Is there a robber seal, insteda of the stock felt, above the needle bearing, on the other side?

The washer has a beveled edge, to fit the flywheel, and covers the flywheel dowels completely. Good part.

[dennismcd707]

I ordered these from different vendors and at different times. I think Dale is correct about one being Chromoly and one being stock, but I'm surprised that I have a choice as to what type of washer to use. One is wavy, and one is just a huge washer. Isn't there a difference in function between the two washers? Don't they work differently? The gland nut is very important, so I'm just surprised that somebody decided to use a large washer instead of the wavy one. I figured the washer would be standard.
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[modok]

The Germans were very fond of the wavy spring washer....but why is a long story, and if it is or isn't wavy isn't really important.

Yeah the wavy washer is stock, but I prefer to use scat gland nut, which has a heavier washer and the 1 1/2 (38mm in metrique) size head. APR lube, 300ft-lb, or more.

Now....maybe one or both is a cheap knock-off, can't really tell looking, but they both look fine from here.

[mark tucker]

get the good chromoly glandular nuts and big washer.be sure to degurr the flats of the nut so they do not dig into the washer witch will alter the real world torque applied to the assy.use some molly greessee inbetween the nut&washer, I also use it on the threads, but some wimpy people cant seem to torque their nuts tight and try to rely on locktight. if your dowels stick out of the flywheel either drive them in farther if they will or cut them so they are below the flywheel serface so the washer does not contact the dowels.(they must still go through the flywheer atleast 3/4 depth)

[dennismcd707]

Yea, you're right, they are two different nuts. The one with felt is out of the box. Chromoly Nut & Washer, Economy, 36mm head, purchased thru ACN. The black one was either purchased from Fat Performance/Rimco, or I bought it on Amazon, I can't remember which. I also noticed the black one doesn't have any grease on the needle bearings. One photo shows 2 used gland nuts along with the new ones for comparison.

It's interesting. I initially just wanted to know: "IF THE GLAND NUT IS SO IMPORTANT, WHY ARE THERE DIFFERENT CHOICES FOR THE WASHER? ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT TOO?" And now, it turns out I have two different types of nuts too. And the rubber seal vs. felt. What's that about? Interesting to me.
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[dennismcd707]

..........also, the black washer is actually completely flat, and it almost looks used. And the mystery black nut without the grease on the bearings is 36mm as well as the others.
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[modok]

The spring washer is too small and does not need to be wave shaped.

The other washer is excessively large.

IMO they are both equally not ideal, but both good enough.

[mark tucker]

and try to center the washer why they made them fit like shit is a mystery. also some nuts have a groove in the shank like oe did and some don't...and some have less threads and some more...... there have been a few gaulded threads threads hear...so....like I said I use moly lube on mine. and it's agood idea to have a good fitting socket...it would be nice to have one that piloted in the center too,,,them nuts are thin. hmmm taller nuts!!!

[dennismcd707]

.... there wouldn't be a problem centering the washer because it's ID is just a tad bigger than the OD of the gland nut. Also, what's with the rubber seal in the black one? And no grease? Or felt? Hmm, I can put grease in there, but I'm wondering why there isn't any. Maybe just bad quality assurance practices during manufacturing?

I found where I bought the black one too, and it appears that both of the gland nuts that I have are advertised as chromoly, and both are advertised as Economy as well. I wonder what I'd get if I hadn't chose "Economy". The bill says: Chromoly gland nut & washer, Economy, 36mm head, from Fat Performance/Rimco.
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[modok]

The design of the VW gland "nut" (would be more proper to call it a screw) requires it to be entirely machined from stock, because the threads and head and ID need to be all concentric.
Modern bolts can be made strong and cheap because they are stamped to shape and threads rolled.....but that won't work with this design.
Because it has to be machined and threads cut by lathe, it would be normal to use a free machining steel like 12L14 alloy....which is sometimes called "screw machine steel" It isn't very strong, but it cuts very easily.

If it was made of high strength steel and heat treated I think it would cost closer to 50$ just to make, no mark up.
I don't know how scat makes them so cheap but I'm thankful for it.

Anyway, just looking at the toolmarks and appearance, the plain gland nut pictured I would be fairly sure it is made from 12L14 or some similar material.

The black one......from the edges and toolmarks, like it was made from a stronger steel.

[dennismcd707]

What do you think about the bearings not having any grease? A simple fix, if you think it's necessary. Should I lube 'em up? And what exactly is the rubber seal for? Maybe that will explain why most gland nuts have felt in there too.
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[60ragtop]

yes the bearing needs a little grease. and the felt is just a seal of sorts. Who knows why they didn't add lube to the bearing?
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986

[fl59bug]

At least one of my shop manuals mentions the wavy washer serving as something of a locking mechanism.