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nelsonhogg
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 82
Location: Portland, OR
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 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:46 am Post subject: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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After a bostig conversion I am having trouble getting the gauges on the dash to work, particulary temp, O2 and alternator. I don't know about oil press. Jim at bostig suggests getting an ultragauge which seems a good idea. I have a couple of questions:
1) Which model? There seem to be several.
2) Is the cable long enough to reach back to the electronics?
3)Anyone use the bluetooth-smartphone combo and is happy with it?
Thank you, Nelson Hogg |
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Guybrush
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 453
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:56 am Post subject: Re: ultragauge for bostig |
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For the Ultragauge, this is the one you want, if you want the wired. That's the one people use for a Bostig conversion:
http://ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/ultragauge_wired.htm
You would also need to get the OBD2 extension that Bostig sells. That will allow you to have a port out front, for example to the left of your steering column, in which to plug the Ultragauge. |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: ultragauge for bostig |
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1) I have the original model. Looks like that is now the EM plus.
2) No. However, you really only need 2-3 wires from the computer. The hot, ground, and on can be pulled from the fuse block under the dash. I bought expensive OBD extension cables only to realize I didnt need them and then ended up using cheap shielded signal wire.
3) I ran the bluetooth combo for about a yr before it died. Waste of money in the long run.
The Ultragauge is my tach and temp gauge. I basically use real time head temp to limit how hard I flog on the engine. If Im climbing a long steep pass I can back off and keep the temp exactly where I want them. Highly recommended for any OBD2 conversion. |
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4096
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: ultragauge for bostig |
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The other option is the Scangauge II. I've been using this for going on ten years.
https://www.scangauge.com/products/scangauge-ii/
On the other hand, your stock gauges should work. Were they functioning before the conversion?
The only stock gauge I've had trouble with is the tachometer and that was my own fault. I did the diode switch out and I think I managed to bugger it. My stock tach always reads between 3000-4000 rpm.
I ended up buying the tach signal converter from Bostig but I still need to find a original Syncro tach that has not been messed with to replace the one I killed.
The Scangauge II gives me all the info I need so the bad tach hasn't been a problem.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7469
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: ultragauge for bostig |
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| buildyourown wrote: |
The Ultragauge is my tach and temp gauge. I basically use real time head temp to limit how hard I flog on the engine. If Im climbing a long steep pass I can back off and keep the temp exactly where I want them. Highly recommended for any OBD2 conversion. |
I’m fortunate in that my OH gauges all work but I really like the Ultragauge.
There are dozens of parameters that can be monitored with the Ultragauge. If I had only one it would be cylinder head temp. 231 degrees (below) means it’s about time to consider backing off the accelerator. I mostly run below 220, sometimes flogging it to 240. The alarm is set at 245 degrees (I’d love to hear if there’s a smarter threshold).
I have three screens set. The one shown below is the primary screen with six parameters measured. The subsequent pages show 8 per page with the second focused on miles and mileage for trip and current and the third screen displaying distances between services, etc. There are parameters available that may be helpful to some but are meaningless to me (throttle %, engine load %, etc).
I recommend the Ultragauge (although I have zero experience with the scangauge) unless you go to a full pod replacement as Kourt did (see his terrific instrument build below):
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=339
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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JudoJeff
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013
Posts: 1179
Location: Near Springfield, MA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:43 am Post subject: Re: ultragauge for bostig |
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I have used both Scangauge II and UltraGauge. I prefer the UltraGauge because it has a very big, easy to read screen.
Like jimf909, I set up the screens to provide useful information. Saved my butt when overflow hose sagged and got cut by serpentine belt. Alarm went off as engine overheated! (Duct tape rescued me.)
No opinion on Bluetooth version.
Would love to hear more about using the fuse panel connections!
_________________
________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout) |
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JudoJeff
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013
Posts: 1179
Location: Near Springfield, MA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:57 am Post subject: Re: ultragauge for bostig |
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double, not sure why
_________________
________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout)
Last edited by JudoJeff on Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Slate
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:04 am Post subject: Re: ultragauge for bostig |
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| nelsonhogg wrote: |
After a bostig conversion I am having trouble getting the gauges on the dash to work, particulary temp, O2 and alternator. I don't know about oil press. Jim at bostig suggests getting an ultragauge which seems a good idea. I have a couple of questions:
1) Which model? There seem to be several.
2) Is the cable long enough to reach back to the electronics?
3)Anyone use the bluetooth-smartphone combo and is happy with it?
Thank you, Nelson Hogg |
I use the Torque Free application on our phones and a 7" non-phone tablet with GPS and like it very much.
Although I have not used the Ultragauge nor Scangauge, I have to say that having them wired in and always installed in one location has it's advantage compared to an Android solution. Regardless of which type you go with, wired or wireless, the smog shops may want the OBDII port near the steering wheel, maybe not today but eventually so running the wires there should not be the deciding factor. The availability of the OBDII scanner allowed me to hunt down and eliminate ALL of the check engine light (CEL) faults and have the functional CEL in use in my Subaru conversion. The CEL is your useful friend, not a nuisance.
Size and gauge layout, whether you can have just 4 small gauges or 2 or mope gauges of configurable size was a big factor for me.
I went with the Android application "Torque Free" and initially the Bluetooth adapter but since the Bluetooth interfered with phone/radio functions switched to a WIFI adapter. (I also drowned my Bluetooth adapter so it died an unnatural early death.)
My primary reason to use the application rather than the hardware solution, I too looked at both, was the ability to log data to a spreadsheet format, which I do often, the ease of using it on other vehicles and to get gauges of a configurable size and quantity. I am extremely happy with it and would upgrade to the Pro version if I could figure out how to pay for it in cash, although I don't know of any features that I'm really missing with the Free version.
Note that I don't know if the Bostig ECU sees the oil pressure data, most applications do not, so if that's one of your concerns no OBDII solution can provide data that the ECU does not have. With that said, my ECU wants the fuel tank level and fuel temperature values which I have spoofed but I'm considering putting an analog oil pressure value onto one of those inputs and a second engine coolant sensor on the other, so know that just because you don't have a value does not mean you can't have the value. Just have to be careful what the ECU then does with that bogus data.
Note also, when logging with the Android solution it also logs the GPS Time/Date/Position data also.
I also use the application GPSLogger whether in the car, biking or walking which logs the GPS data into a format which I then can view in Google Earth, especially when I'm off-road or trail or not interested in paying attention to the route but just wandering, like driving logging or Forest Service roads. |
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Guybrush
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 453
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: ultragauge for bostig |
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I use only 3 indicators on the Ultragauge: head temp, tach (rarely, because it's too small as I have it setup), and volts. I could setup the tach as a large indicator and the volts smaller, but the 1s refresh time is poor anyway). I also set up the throttle % but it's not really useful. I get my speed/odo from GPS (currently a Speedhut gauge). I'm actually working on my own custom dashboard that will replace the standard gauges and eliminate the Ultragauge (I'll keep it around for reading codes in case the lamp comes on) because I love the old 80s digital style  |
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nelsonhogg
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 82
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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| Thanks all for your advice. I decided on the bluetooth/android version because it was less expensive (no extension cable needed) and was available now. As the app is preset it only gives load and coolant temp on the 1st screen, trip info on the 2nd and speed and rpms on the 3rd. I would like to customize this or download templates from the web, but can't figure out how to do it. The instructions for the downloadable templates don't seem to be compatible with this version of the app. |
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Slate
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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| nelsonhogg wrote: |
| Thanks all for your advice. I decided on the bluetooth/android version because it was less expensive (no extension cable needed) and was available now. As the app is preset it only gives load and coolant temp on the 1st screen, trip info on the 2nd and speed and rpms on the 3rd. I would like to customize this or download templates from the web, but can't figure out how to do it. The instructions for the downloadable templates don't seem to be compatible with this version of the app. |
As you seem to already have the wireless OBDII to Android device, I again recommend looking into Torque Lite as it seems to be able to display all of the parameters, logs, fast and very flexible with multiple pages and can use a background image..
https://torque-bhp.com/ app's official web page
https://www.appbrain.com/dev/Ian+Hawkins/ Information about the app developer |
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kourt
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013
Posts: 1947
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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I have had a Bostig conversion (RG1) since 2014 and I use the UltraGauge.
Recently I replaced my gauges with SpeedHut gauges:
I now have the Ultragauge mounted in the extreme lower left (from the driver's perspective) corner of the windshield, where it makes a nice Heads Up display. Having a HUD up there keeps my eyes on the road more.
kourt |
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Slate
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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| kourt wrote: |
Recently I replaced my gauges with SpeedHut gauges:
kourt |
Wow! Those are cool! Nice installation.
Above today's budget for me but I do like them although I'd still need the Android app or such to log the data which I do often.
How accurate is the fuel gauge. My stock gauge hits the red with about 4 gallons left and I sure wish it didn't. |
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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why would you need to log data on a naturally aspirated engine?
I can see why it'd be fun with a (chipped) turbo powered motor..
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| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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kourt
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013
Posts: 1947
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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| Slate wrote: |
| How accurate is the fuel gauge. My stock gauge hits the red with about 4 gallons left and I sure wish it didn't. |
The fuel gauge is very accurate in the first half of the tank, and does accurately depict an empty condition, but the sender signal tends to make the needed slosh quite a bit in the last 1/3 of the tank. The solution is to buy Speedhut's sender.
kourt |
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4096
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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Curious, how easy is it to change the display on the Ultragauge?
We travel back and forth across the US/Canadian border fairly often and on the Scangauge II it's easy to switch from KPH to MPH with just a few clicks of the button while driving.
Have the SA steering wheel and it's actually easier to read the Scangauge than the stock speedometer.
Trying to decide if it's worth changing to the Ultraguage for it's other features.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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| MsTaboo wrote: |
Curious, how easy is it to change the display on the Ultragauge?
We travel back and forth across the US/Canadian border fairly often and on the Scangauge II it's easy to switch from KPH to MPH with just a few clicks of the button while driving.
Have the SA steering wheel and it's actually easier to read the Scangauge than the stock speedometer.
Trying to decide if it's worth changing to the Ultraguage for it's other features. |
Very easy. There are 5-6 different screens that you can preset. I only use one but you could easily make a different one with other information |
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Slate
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
why would you need to log data on a naturally aspirated engine?
I can see why it'd be fun with a (chipped) turbo powered motor.. |
I suppose, ultimately for exactly the same reasons even if the parameters watched and/or tweaked are different.
We've used our Westfalia mostly on long distance trips in the US and hopefully Canada and from the start, I've always planned to sometimes tow either a toad or a catamaran, either of which would represent a heavy load on a 3 to 10,000 mile trip.
The parameter I've observed and trended most so far is engine temperature because of data learned on several Foresters and Outback's before the Westy conversion regarding the Subaru cooling system. As a result of that information and my opinion of what the data revealed, I deviated from standard and installed a full-bypass thermostat. Extensive logging and analysis of that data quantifies to me that the modification was the right solution to insure engine life while also eliminating VW/Subaru priming issues inherent in both the VW and Subaru configuration.
Our upcoming July trip is expected to run 5,000 miles. Fuel is expected to cost between $1,300 and $1,600. I log data, trend and the inspect it to see what I might do to improve our mileage, for, for us, that $300 difference is very significant. I also have a modification in the works that I hope will improve the Subaru performance significantly but I have to have both the data and the experience looking at it to insure that any mileage improvements are not affecting the engine otherwise.
Last but not least, I find trending other sensors, such as the O2's, provides better data than just snapshots. So while my application is just in a truck, my demands on my vehicle are just as demanding even if not in the same performance envelope that, for example, a hard driven WRX may see.
See my related MPG post dated June 01 2018 below even though in this case, it does not relate to OBDII data. I also have parts of the trip with the OBDII data but have not had the time to correlate it yet, as the GPSLogger logged the data at 20 about second intervals while the TorqueLite OBDII logged it at 1 second intervals, which made for a lot of data points!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8788018#8788018
| kourt wrote: |
| Slate wrote: |
| How accurate is the fuel gauge. My stock gauge hits the red with about 4 gallons left and I sure wish it didn't. |
The fuel gauge is very accurate in the first half of the tank, and does accurately depict an empty condition, but the sender signal tends to make the needed slosh quite a bit in the last 1/3 of the tank. The solution is to buy Speedhut's sender.
kourt |
That's what I might expect. I imagine you could build a R/C (resistor/capacitor) that would dampen out that sloshing without affecting the accuracy.
The Speedhut's sensor probably has a dampener built in already.
Do like the looks of your cluster  |
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baltik
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2015
Posts: 440
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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For those of us without OBD2 - is there a similar product that interfaces with traditional sensors? (ideally wireless)
In a perfect world I'd love Oil temp, Coolant temp, oil pressure and transmission temp
this would be for an ej22 frankenmotor |
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Slate
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Ultragauge for Bostig |
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| baltik wrote: |
For those of us without OBD2 - is there a similar product that interfaces with traditional sensors? (ideally wireless)
In a perfect world I'd love Oil temp, Coolant temp, oil pressure and transmission temp
this would be for an ej22 frankenmotor |
I'm sure there are and I'm also sure it only takes money to implement these solutions. Megasquirt is the first one that comes to mind but in the oil fields on our fracking rigs we used data collection systems that ultimately resolved to both CAN BUSS and OBDII protocols, and from there it's a simple +/- $15 OBDII to WiFi (or Bluetooth) signal to be received by whatever (TorqueLite) software.
Also, the race car guys use these systems and there are Arduino solutions available, if you have the money and/or time.
Being frugal, and of limited funds and wanting a quick solution, I did to a limited extent gather some data from my Westy's 1.9 waterboxer before the conversion, which is pretty far from OBDII, by simply paralleling the signal into the upcoming Subaru Outback ECU which didn't control anything, just made the data available to the OBDII port,
All I gathered was the water temperature and RPM, but coupled with the Android GPS speed, elevation, position and accelerometers it provided the data I wanted to quantify the before and after performance improvements going from the 1.9 to the EJ25.
From memory, the 2000 Outback ECU has the following useful inputs:
Sine wave Pulse: Crankshaft (RPM)
Square wave Pulse: Wheel Speed (from AT transmission or manual instrument cluster)
8 Bit (?) analog, Throttle Position, Water Temperature, Air Temp, Fuel Tank temp and pressure, Mass Air Flow (MAF) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP), O2 Sensors
Find a suitable ECU, does not have to be Subaru for maybe you're a VW/Audi or Ford guy or maybe you just happen to have something else, and wire it up to gather the signals and then read and or log it.
The scaling may or may not make sense initially but with correction in Excel or tweaking in your Android app (Torque) it can still be used. Also resistor networks or op-amps can be used to correct the data if you like.
The ECU will be upset that the signals are out of whack and throw codes like crazy but we don't care, we just want the inputs. Let it be pissed off.
For me, I don't really care about oil pressure in my EJ25 powered Westy but I would like engine or tranny oil temperatures and various water temperatures so I can send that data in the Fuel Tank pressure or temperature ECU inputs and displaying and logging them without affecting engine operation since those parameters are used for fuel tank emission controls, not engine operation. (I should be interested in exhaust temperatures but since I'm not messing with the fuel, I'm not.) |
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