Rebuild WITHOUT align (line?) boring??

[SamboSamba22]

Awaken from the dead.

Am I a fool to consider building this motor back up without align-boring this case?

No catches in the journals, sure some discoloration, but all the standard bearings still fit snug inside their perspective journals.
Thoughts???
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[drs1023]

Line (or align if you prefer) boring is cheap enough at this point. Check the case at the flywheel. Most reputable shops will have stamped any previous over bore size. With the increased price of VW parts over the last couple of decade and the dwindling supply of original cases, I wouldn't take the chance of a rebuild without making sure everything is properly in place before spending money on parts. Align boring doesn't mean you have to have the crankshaft resurfaced if it mic's in spec (to the 4th decimal place, please)

[bugheadred]

is Line boring the best place to save money I don't think so I don't know what it cost to have one bored (I have a boring tool )but if it was mine I would find another place to save money

[wcfvw69]

I'd get it align bored. $100ish dollars is good money spent to try to maximize the life of the engine.

I did rebuild a bug engine once that barely had a ridge on one saddle. The crank was fine so it was polished with fine crocus cloth. All new bearings, rebuilt rods, heads and new pistons/cylinders. Runs fine, good oil pressure and has 8k trouble free miles so far. Smooth w/no vibrations either at higher RPM.

This bug doesn't get driven much and the engine rebuild will last my lifetime.
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[SamboSamba22]

The expense isn’t necessarily the issue, it’s finding a reputable business to complete the work.
I don’t want to ship my case to California.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[60ragtop]

I did the same to a standard case 5 years ago. Bearings fit tight, no ridge on saddle, put in a new crank and rods as it had spun a rod bearing. It lasted for 45K till it developed a noise which turned out to be a loose cam gear. So we are going to to it again with new bearings and a new cam.
End play was in spec, had 135-140 PSI in each cylinder. Bolted the bare case together and it passed the middle saddle test so good to go.
Still experimenting after 40+ years
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986

[VW_Jimbo]

I was taught if you can read the embossed lettering on the back of the bearings, on the case saddles, it is time to align-bore the case. I can read the bearing part number. Time to bore!

Cheap insurance!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Max Welton]

I am of the opinion that well balanced rotating and reciprocating assemblies means less wear and tear on the case bearing saddles.

If you start with a case that is right, and have everything professionally balanced and add real oil filtration the case should last virtually forever.

I'm 61 so "forever" is around 30 years.

Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836

[bugheadred]

just measure your case if it is in tolerance its all good if not have it bored why is this so hard

[TDCTDI]

Well... eight years later, hey djkeev, how’d it work out for you?
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[djkeev]

[Zundfolge1432]

I can see both sides of the question. It became standard practice to eliminate any questions and run the bar through it no matter what it looked like, and more often than not the area around thrust bearing needed attention, easier to just do it while it’s down. The decision not to cut means you must have an experienced eye and usually it will be a low mileage engine that has failed for some other reason and has never been overheated. Properly maintained and driven the lower end should last over 100k miles, as mentioned a balanced engine with filtered oil can make this a reality. So if you don’t know what to look for and have an extra 60-80 bucks go ahead and cut it. Unrelated but added fun is when you get all this figured out and upon torquing the nuts around perimeter of case half it quits turning and then you find it’s been overheated and warped around the cam area. 😀 joy tear it all apart and find someone that knows how to fix that. That used to happen too.

[Max Welton]

Having watched the hobby and supporting industry shrink over the years, I am of the opinion that in less than one decade it will no longer be possible to buy a new case that doesn't need work or find a shop that can do that work at any reasonable cost.

I have two good cases. They are both straight, full flowed and have bronze lifter bores.

I do not regard them as disposable. I expect them to remain serviceable until I can no longer drive.

Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836

[Viva.Sabata]

Back to Dave the OP:

I just built a 2.2L waterboxer and did not line bore the case. 2500 miles and VERY strong. I will be sure to report back and let y’all know how it is going.

The reason being the machinist recommended a line bore. I disagreed and built it anyway.

Cheers
_________________
Sabata
1987 Westy Full Camper, Peloquin 5-Speed 2wd

[Zundfolge1432]

^^^^^^ compared to earlier type1,2,3 stuff which is a different alloy is like comparing apples to oranges

[AlteWagen]

As mentioned earlier in the thread finding a QUALIFIED shop to do QUALITY work is the issue these days. The other main thing to consider is many of the shops will cut the thrust surface to a 'non standard' bearing size which requires the bearing itself to also be custom cut to the case. I understand the reason why (cut only enough to clean up the thrust surface) but it adds to the overall expense and frustration if a new set of bearings are needed.

Not sure what its costing others but a cut/bearing/shipping is around $200.
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Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet

[Zundfolge1432]

No frustration or added expense here, it’s the better way to do it as you pointed out. In the hands of an experienced machinist it adds only a few moments to custom fit that bearing. Experience being the key, currently it’s about 80 bucks here to align bore and fit #1 thrust. No big deal to cut down a plus size bearing