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Fuel type tank compatability...
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Dampcamper
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

Gizmoman wrote:
You may find this article interesting.
https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-country/en_au/media/fuel-news/long-term-storage-diesel.pdf
It also mentions that brass is another metal that doesn't get along with diesel.



A good article. Brass is an alloy of copper and (guess what?): Zinc
When brass is used in corrosive (salt water and diesel, to name a couple) environments, the zinc dissolves out and leaves a porous, spongy copper.
Bronze (copper and tin) doesn't suffer from "dezincification" but good luck finding a bronze fuel tank! That's why we use bronze $crew$ to fasten planking to boats in salt water.
Somebody in the supply chain for making the fuel tank should have a specification for the coating (if any) on the inside of the tank. They had to buy the materials somewhere. Finding that person is the big challenge.
Dave's test looks good, if you can figure out how to lick the inside of your fuel tank Confused
Seriously, thanks, Dave, I'll have to try that test now.
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GreggK
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

I've inspected the inside of the tank best I could and I'd like to think it looks like bare steel. The outside is definitely coated with something. Its very shiny and silver. Seems like a tough paint. I can say that even though the two tanks I have are the same part number and from the same vendor, they are completely different on the inside.
I did some googling and the first place I clicked on sells internal coatings for tanks. KBS Coatings. They recommended a 3 step kit to coat the tank, that is suitable for diesel but in the description it states that the sealer leaves a zinc phosphate film. I though zinc was the element we wanted to stay away from.
I did the test Dave outlined on another tank just to see the effects. Will have to wait till tomorrow for results.
No luck talking to Van café about the disclaimer. I explained the situation to Just Kampers through e-mail and their reply "We've sold lots of these tanks without any of the problems like those you've described."
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

I wouldn't coat it - that's just asking for trouble.

To be honest, It seems your overthinking this a bit. IF there is zinc in your brand new tank it's got to be a tiny amount. Also, today's diesel is low sulfur which I believe is the component that creates the issue with zinc.

It's your call for sure but please don't coat it.
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GreggK
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

Yea I was not too thrilled about the coating idea. I think I'm deciding to keep the tank and maybe just put some diesel in it and let it sit a few days till the weekend and just install unless I notice something funky with the fuel.
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

Good call.
In the link I posted earlier, there was some mention of additives that protect against zinc and even brass messing with the fuel. To be honest, there are plenty of diesel vans running around and I've never heard of an issue - but then I haven't looked into it with the gusto you have either : )
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

So I've had some diesel fuel sitting in the tank for a few days now and I even poured some fuel into one of the depressions on the outside of the tank and let it sit to see if it does anything to the exterior paint. I even rubed it very hard with a diesel soaked rag and the paint did not come off and I don't see any change in the color on the interior of the tank so I want to think the tank is safe for the diesel fuel.
I'm just wondering if it takes a longer time for a reaction, if Im going to get one?
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

I wouldn't worry about it.
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

GreggK wrote:
So I've had some diesel fuel sitting in the tank for a few days now and I even poured some fuel into one of the depressions on the outside of the tank and let it sit to see if it does anything to the exterior paint. I even rubed it very hard with a diesel soaked rag and the paint did not come off and I don't see any change in the color on the interior of the tank so I want to think the tank is safe for the diesel fuel.
I'm just wondering if it takes a longer time for a reaction, if Im going to get one?


While I'm no filter expert, my guess is that a good diesel fuel filter would catch anything that would mess with your pump or injectors. If you look for gremlins on the internet, you will generally find them.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

Thanks again guys for the advice. I think I'm going to go with the tank and will look into a filter. On my last Subaru conversion I was burning up fuel pumps so I used a cheap clear plastic filter before my pump. I could actually see all debris coming out of the tank so I replaced the tank and continued to use the filter. The pump ran strong and quiet for years till I sold the engine conversion. The diesel conversion kit I have uses a different pump than the stock VW. I'll have to ask Jon at FAS his opinion on the pre-pump filter idea. I know some say that it will burn out the pump due to restriction.
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

GreggK wrote:
Thanks again guys for the advice. I think I'm going to go with the tank and will look into a filter. On my last Subaru conversion I was burning up fuel pumps so I used a cheap clear plastic filter before my pump. I could actually see all debris coming out of the tank so I replaced the tank and continued to use the filter. The pump ran strong and quiet for years till I sold the engine conversion. The diesel conversion kit I have uses a different pump than the stock VW. I'll have to ask Jon at FAS his opinion on the pre-pump filter idea. I know some say that it will burn out the pump due to restriction.


The pump for your Subaru and the pump for your diesel are two different animals. As you are clearly attempting to do this right, make sure you have a serious diesel filter between the tank and your injection pump (if that's the pump your referring to). My 82 diesel has a stock canister filter located on the right side of the fire-wall in the engine bay.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I'd look for something similar and install it before running any diesel into the engine from your new tank.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

I used a Mercedes filter flange, because ironically their filters are cheaper, but very high quality.

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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

Very Nice filter for sure. Just wanted to make sure the OP had a good filter before the IP. He may have been referring to an additional inline filter which shouldn't be required. That said, a good canister filter is a must.
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GreggK
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

I do have a filter but it is after the pump. The FAS manual refers to it as a "lift pump" which is right off the tank, then into the filter which runs into the engine, then back to the filter then to a fuel cooler and then back to the tank.
Yes Gizmoman, I was thinking of an inline filter between the tank and "lift pump", thinking it would filter out and contaminants before running through the pump. when you refer to your injection pump is that the same as my lift pump?
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel type tank compatability... Reply with quote

No, your lift pump is different than the injection pump. Your engine is a Pump Duse, right? I assume this uses a lift pump to deliver low pressure fuel to the high pressure pump or the injectors--I'm not fully up to speed with PD engines.

Anyhoo...I wouldn't worry about contaminants wearing out your low pressure lift pump. Just let the filter do its business further downstream.
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