Info on Tiico ECU's from FAS

[82westyrabbit]

I down loaded that information from the Tiico Yahoo group

[metropoj]

Yeah, I also suggest to come over to the Yahoo group for this info.

There are many with TiiCo A code experience well before FAS straightened everything out with the original kit.

I believe A code was 10deg BTDC.

There are also several wiring diagrams, shop manuals and piles of other great stuff in the files and photos sections.

Keith H and many others have been my saviors in cutting through the mud of the TiiCo saga.

I have the newer 6 degree BTDC timing instructions for the E code but I can't say it'll be correct for an A code. However, here is what I have for setting up an E code and corresponding parts:


RSU 906 258 E BOSCH MP 9.0 ECU

2LR 14 VW VANAGON ENGINE CONVERSION

ECU Set Up Instructions & Timing Procedure

The RSU 906 258E MUST BE run with the following components:

FUEL RAIL: 037 133 317 B PRESSURE REGULATOR: 0 280 160 235
INJECTOR: 037 906 031AK or 037 906 031 R (VW Dealer tut. need grooves for clips machined)
02 SENSOR: (VW# 021 906 265 AQ. OR BOSCH# 15160)


ECU Set Up Instructions:

With engine below 70* Celsius, put key in the on position (w/ out starting the engine).

Go to Group 2 Fault Codes and right them down for reference and then erase the codes (Group 5)

Go to Group 4 Channel 1 (or 01 based on your scan tool). You will hear an audible clicking sound as the throttle body set-up takes place.

After about 30 seconds, shut the key off, then wait a few seconds and recycle the key...this time start the engine. Immediately go to Group 4 Channel 1 again and allow vehicle to idle for a few minutes...this will set your idle adaptation.

After 5 minutes of running at idle, go to Channel 8 Group 1 and you will be able to view the same items as you did in Group 4 Basic Settings

Once the vehicle has warmed up to 70* Celsius you can now set timing
Timing Procedure

There were many previous Tiico (2LR) engines with the timing 1 cam tooth off relative to the crank. Therefore it would be wise to verify the crank is at TDC with the cam notch lined up to the mating surface of the head and valve cover (you only have to remove the upper timing cover) and set the rotor to the notch on the distributor.

Let the engine warm up and set the computer to Group 4 Channel l...the ECU should raise the idle to about 1450 RPM’s

Set your digital timing light to 6 degrees BTDC, loosen the distributor bolt and align the crank shaft pulley mark with the arrow on the timing cover

Go back to group 8 Channel 1 and your idle should resume...Exit out

-ALWAYS RUN A MINIMUM OF 91 OCTANE FUEL-
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[llilibel03]

Was it worth it going from A to E edu? They're $400.

I have the A. Car runs fine, but only gets 16mpg. I'm in the process of trying to get my O2 sensor out. I've been "blasting" it every day now for almost a week after last weekend's failed attempt to get it out. Online research says to use a torch. If it gets to that I'll bring it to my mechanic.
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87 syncro tintop
90 gl tin top
85 westy 2.0 tiico automatic (present)

[metropoj]

To me, with a brand new factory crate motor, it was totally worth the E code with all the issues that the A code had.

I had planned to keep this set up a long time. Lots will say their A code is running just fine as-is.

Things like running lean ( and hot ) and blowing up motors and cracking headers, ECU locking out the cobbled O2 sensor inputs, and other things I can't even do justice based on memory.

But it is not just 400, you need the A2 injectors and fuel rail, proper 4 wire O2 sensor, mod your harness for the O2 sensor and other bits if you don't have them. I also switched to the A3 Serpentine belt system.

It is not cheap but also not that expensive in the grander scheme of all the other things I've done to the van.

Without a good running motor, all I have is an oversized lawn ornament.
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[VWTECHEDITOR]

Good Evening,

John, thanks for the set-up information, I appreciate it!
It looks to be fairly straight forward.
On this particular engine, the timing had apparently been set way too far advanced in order to make it run. So it will need much more diagnosis.

It would be nice to have a listing for all the values that show up in function 08, measuring value blocks. I am very familiar with that type of data having done considerable research for an OBD1 publication some years ago.

I'll try a to join that Yahoo group again. I could not get the captcha thing to respond. I'm just a low tech kind of guy living in a high tech world.

Regards,
Art LeBrun

[Paulbeard]

[Paulbeard]

[82westyrabbit]

It’s easier. The serpentine belt and alternator are from a mk3 golf or Jetta. My van has no ac or power steering so I need a custom water pump pully from FAS. If you have ac and or power steering then you just use the stock MK3 stuff. It gets you a higher amp alternator as well.

[Paulbeard]

[metropoj]

Much easier with the Serpentine setup and no belt wobble from all the TiiCo bits that were just never up to the task.

With the MK3 ( or A3 ) setup, there are a number of ways to get to the end result.

You can use MK3 stuff ( bracket (with all hardware !)Alt, P/S pump , crank pulley ). Use the VR6 water pump pulley to drive the standard water pump. Use the MK3 alternator and I can't comment on the A/C.

Because you have A/C you use the stock MK3 with A/C. There will be a tight fit under the decklid due to where the Alternator placement is. Some people remove a bit of the foam insulation.

Now, for those without A/C, there is a couple different mounting bracket options. The ABF engine used a different style of serpentine layout and I believe was a European solution.

There is another however for Non A/C people...

The Canadian MK3 came with a factory A/C delete bracket that pushes the alternator into a non interference position with the decklid.

I run one of these factory Delete A/C brackets with the FAS Billet Crank pulley and FAS billet water pump pulley. I use the MK3 power steering pump with the Vanagon hoses.

Check out my TiiCo install build on the site here for more pics and details on how it all fits together.
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[metropoj]

[Paulbeard]

[82westyrabbit]

If you have a ac compressor working or not the belt runs around the compressor then the water pump the then alternator then the belt tensioner. If you remove the compressor then you need a water pump pully with groves instead of smooth. Obviously you need the mk3 crank pully as well. My engine sits 2 inches higher than normal because I am running 82 diesel carrier bars and transmission mount with no spacers. So I had to modify my alternator bracket to lower the alternator to fit under the deck lid. This would be a big deal with out the ability to wield aluminum and a milling machine. My computer is a c code with a o2 sensor and a2 fuel rail and injectors. I have not driven like this yet as I am waiting to get it to a alignment shop. I always got 20 miles per gallon with Bosch cis fuel injection. If you see a thread on converting from the TIICO fuel injection to Bosch CIS in a few months, then you will know I didn’t like it. I will be pretty disappointed if I don’t get as good fuel mileage as I did with my old fuel injection.

[Paulbeard]

[82westyrabbit]

Yes a E code computer would be plug and play in my van. I was trying to set up the computer when the Ross tec software I was using crashed. I will get it set up when it gets to my friends alignment shop. He has a vag 1552 to set it up. I have put a ton of money in this thing this winter and upgrading the computer is not on the top of my list. I certainly will do that if I am not satisfied with how it runs when it’s on the road next week

[llilibel03]

[Paulbeard]

[metropoj]

[metropoj]

[khughes]

Indeed the C-code ECU should have a 4-wire O2 sensor, and the A-code - except for the earliest ones - had an O2 as well, although their closed loop mode is very primitive and known to lock up and stop functioning too.

As Jon was quoted, the fuel economy will be better using the WBX injectors with anything but the E-code ECUs. My A-code *did* idle better and seemed smoother with the A-2 injectors, but I picked up a couple MPG and more low end power when I upgraded to the E-code. Yeah, it's pricey, but if you plan on keeping a Tiico long term, its well worth it *IMO* to do the E-code upgrade - for the mileage and performance AND to ensure you're running the correct AFR. Nothing like a sucked exhaust valve or a ventilated piston to ruin your whole day...

I'm now running the FAS GenV, with a turbo, and it's all grin-city for me

Disclaimer - I do consider Jon a personal friend, but I have no dog in this fight, financially or otherwise, so my opinions are strictly my own.