Buggy brake adjustment

[Sharp64]

I'm at a point where I'm trying to dial some things in on the buggy. While the brakes work, there seems to be a LOT of travel and I really have to step on them hard in an emergency stop. I'm thinking they need better adjustment, but trying to decide where I need to be?

With the car just sitting and I push the brake pedal by hand, I can feel a good inch or so before the pedal is actually engaging anything. I'm assuming this is the rod that has to be adjusted like I have heard about?

The brakes have been bled a couple of times, but am going to try it again later today when I have a helper. I always thought there was a lot of travel inherent in these systems as my 64 has a soft pedal but after driving my latest buy realized that's not correct at all. My bleeding procedure has been to adjust the star adjusters all the way out, have my helper pump the brakes slowly and hold on the 5th pump, I loosen the bleeder, pedal goes to floor, and I tighten up the bleeder. Starting from R/R going to L/R, R/F and L/F. I top off the reservoir every after every wheel is done. New soft lines in the rear. Considering replacing front soft lines as well.

Pans are sheet metal and stop bolted directly to pans.

Thoughts and LMK what additional info is needed.
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[Dale M.]

First thing to do is adjust brake shoes.... Crank on star adjuster hard to take shoes out tight against drums... This will center shoes in wheel cylinder.... Then back off adjusters till you just get a whisper of rub as you rotate wheel.... IF you don't do this you will never have decent brakes.... If you have bled brakes twice and get no improvement, most likely they are good.... In 99.875 instances adjusting brake master cylinder push rod will gain you nothing ( in stock bug) and may even cause you grief if you get plunger to deep and block the fluid hole from resevuoir into cylinder...

Also in some brake setups the shoes have a bevel where they meet adjusters be sure you shoes match the same as adjusters... Both shoe and adjust either have a bevel or the do not..

#6 in picture...

Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Sharp64]

Yep. I’ve adjusted the brakes a couple of times. Replaced front shoes as well. There is a good 1-1.5” before the brake pedal hits any resistance. I can literally move it back and forth freely. I don’t think this is correct.
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[BL3Manx]

[Sharp64]

Mine are sheet metal pans so the pedal stop mount isn’t correct I don’t think. I may have to dig into it and slot the hole more to give some better adjustment.
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[YDBD]

I clearly have about 1 1/2" of play before the rod encounters any resistance. The only resistance before that is the return spring.

There is about another 1/2" of play before the master cylinder adds enough pressure for braking.

I get a little OCD when my brakes and clutch engage/disengage because of long legs. If my knee is too bent I cannot apply good pressure and also get fatigued. I spend a good amount of time getting the pedals set at a good point.
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'56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing"

[Vanapplebomb]

With the pedal stop set properly, set the free play by adjusting the rod length. You have to crack the jam nut loose, then unthread the rod until you have the proper free play, then lock the jam nut down again. Should take you about two minutes.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[andk5591]

If you cant get enough adjustment with the stop and there is not enough room on it to slot it enough, I have made replacement stops out of angle iron and heavy aluminum angle for various cars. Not hard to do. I think you want maybe 1/2" of pedal travel before the rod hits the plate in the master. Also, is this single or dual circuit?
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Sharp64]

Single. I have a dual circuit master sitting in my project box waiting for install.
My plan is to eventually replace the rear backing plates to allow wider shoes. Was going to tackle that towards the end of summer.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[Vanapplebomb]

Just so long as you realize that wider shoes do noting to increase braking power. It just reduces liner wear and brake fade. Under normal conditions the braking power will be exactly the same as narrower shoes if the liners are of the same material.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Sharp64]

[andk5591]

[clonebug]

More than likely you probably have some slight drum warping which does not allow you to adjust the shoes tight enough for good pedal travel.
I fought that for years right after I built the buggy with new M/C and front/rear shoes.
In order to get the drum brakes correct you really need to turn the drums, arc the shoes and make sure all the wheel cylinders and M/C is in good shape.
Good luck finding a shop that can arc the brake shoes to fit the drums.......
I used to do that in Tech School class in 1978........
I finally replaced my drum brakes with Discs all the way around and I now have my sweet feeling, short travel pedal along with all the stopping power I need.

You can buy the Empi Disc Brake kits almost as cheap as replacing the shoes, cylinders and drums so for me it was a no brainer.

They are NOT exactly a bolt on experience since you do have to do a little work to make them right but once installed correctly you will have the nicest pedal you can ever get.......plus you never have to adjust brakes again.......which for me was a PITA due to non stock wheels and adapters.....I also fixed that issue with discs having the Chevy bolt pattern.
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