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lofoxx
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:08 am    Post subject: 411 Instrument Panel Reply with quote

Hey guys (and I am sure Ray will respond),

I have a 72 411 (she runs, wahoo). Nothing on the instrument panel works (speedo, odo, gas gauge). I have not unscrewed the plate under the steering wheel, but based on the fuse schematic it's not a fuse; I am betting a mouse ate a wire/wires, or something's just undone.

Do these all run on the same cluster of wires, and can it really be that simple?

Thanks!
Loren
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 411 Instrument Panel Reply with quote

Whst do you mean by "do not work"? Do you mean the lights?.....or the clock, speedo and fuel gauge?
Ray
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lofoxx
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: 411 Instrument Panel Reply with quote

Sorry, should have been more specific.

There are lights to the instrument panel, but the gauges themselves do not actually function. Neither does the horn. So when I'm driving, I have to use Waze to tell me my speed... I put a few gallons of gas in every few days... and the odometer doesn't actually click, it's just stuck wherever it was.

Thanks!
Loren
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: 411 Instrument Panel Reply with quote

lofoxx wrote:
Sorry, should have been more specific.

There are lights to the instrument panel, but the gauges themselves do not actually function. Neither does the horn. So when I'm driving, I have to use Waze to tell me my speed... I put a few gallons of gas in every few days... and the odometer doesn't actually click, it's just stuck wherever it was.

Thanks!
Loren


Ok.....in general....and I will have to look at the schematic later today......but these are all tlfor a large part....seperate systems.
The speedometer is mechanical. It has a cable in a sheath running from the back of it to the left front wheel. It mounts through a square hole in the outer grease cap and has a "E" clip on the outside.

The speedometer needle not moving can be caused ....starting from the wheel.....either the square hole is rounded out in the outer grease cap, or the e-clip is missing, the cable could be broken or frozen up, the cable can be loose from the back of the speedometer or the speedometer can be broken inside. That last one is actually the least common. The rest are all very common.

The horn not working can be from either the switch in the steering wheep push button being corroded, worn or broken, the wire from the horn ring to the outer button may be diaconnected, the wire at the flexible coupling in the steering column may be broken or disconnected, the wires at the horn may be broken or disconnected.....or corroded. The horn itself may be rusted inside and no longer work. Both of these last two are the most common unless the steering column has been tinkered with.
The way the horn works...is that its hot + is connected full time. The ground is made by the horn button.

The clock.....is grounded through the clock instrumment body. Its positive wire goes directly to the back of the clock. If you have lights to the clock working....you have ground. If the positive is hooked up to the back of the clock ....the reason the clock does not work....90% of thr time is that it needs a light cleaning and the soldered overheat fuse inside has blown. Worry about that later its a whole problem on its own.

The fuel gauge not working....starting from the tank.....is either a corroded sending unit, loose ground wire, poor ground due to corrosion at the sending unit, broken wire in between, disconnected wire at the back of the gauge or a broken gauge. All are common.

Tell us about the car. How long have you had it, what have you done what has the last owner done. Ray
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lofoxx
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: 411 Instrument Panel Reply with quote

Sounds good. I will tackle these things one at a time.

I had one of these in high school, or close. It was a 1973 412. This one is a 1972 411. I paid $1K for the original one and loved that car so much. Someone in a Coupe de Ville ran a red light and T-Boned me, and the car was totaled. I drove a friend's 1976 bus for a few months before I got the insurance payout and a 1989 Toyota Corolla.

I was swimming with my dog in the Connecticut River in VT/NH and drove to Westminster, VT and saw a 412 at John's Car Corner (a great spot, lots of old cars and parts). I drove it around his place, came close to buying it (a great price, $2900 - I should have done it), and someone in NJ bought it. I then became kind of obsessed with getting one. I found this one from a guy in Pennsylvania right here on this site. Previous owner never got it to run. I do not know how long he'd owned it. He sold it to me so he could buy diabetes meds (I found it on this site). I bought it for $1140. He does not respond to email or phone calls; I hope he is ok.

I got the car in September 2015, did a number of basic things to it (brakes/shoes, calipers, points, new battery, changed tires, removed mouse nest, replaced some gaskets). Once I ran out of the ability to test my own knowledge or ability to Google (or repair the car without a lift), I had a couple mechanics do some things. The real progress came when I found a dude in Amherst, NH, who had worked on aircooled VWs ages ago. He replaced the computer and the car runs great.

The only real issues I am seeing at this point are these:
1. Parking brake does not work, period. I think I need to reconnect this, but I can't do it without a lift.
2. Some rust, but it is cosmetic.
3. Speedometer does not work.
4. Radio does not work.
5. I don't think heater works, but I don't plan on driving it in winter anyway (salt on the roads and so forth).
6. Horn does not work.
7. If I add new fuel/fill the tank, I get a fuel smell in the cabin. I assume this is because the tank is too full/sloshing around, but who knows.

All is good on my end. I do not drive it more than a few miles from home. Let's see, her name is Veronica.

Thanks,
Loren
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 411 Instrument Panel Reply with quote

Great to meet you!

OK...a few items. Its sounds like a handful of things are disconnected under your dash.

You really should get the heater working...as its VALUABLE....and its hooked into a lot of things...and not running it even occasionally allows the components to rot away. We will get to that.

Where is this cosmetic rust?...I ask...because there is no such thing as "cosmetic" rust on a 411/412. Point it out and I will tell you what to look for. Unlike a beetle or type 3 where you can get away with cosmetic rust...this is a full uni-body car with no floor pan. Rust in the wrong place can scrap the car.

I also ask about rust...because you note that you have a fuel smell after filling up. I bet you have a vertical line of rust on the passenger side fender. Am I right?
Wink

This rust line and the fuel smell is caused by a leaking rubber vent/overflow hose from the fuel filler neck under the right front fender. The fuel sprays back over time and eats away at the undercoating...causing rust to the rolled edge of the fender ...the bolts that hold it on and rust behind the steel panel that is behind the vertical carpet below the fuel flap pull knob near the passengers feet.

Some of the fuel smell is also usually the 3mm vent lines from the top of the fuel tank being cracked.

Ok....looking at your engine compartment picture...several of your hoses are plumbed incorrectly. If the car runs well...it also means that it is likely tuned improperly and the MPS has been tweaked.

Also....for future reference....99.9999% of the time....there will NEVER be anything wrong with the computer/ECU in the fuel injection system unless it has been wet or struck by lightning.

In about 99% of the cases where a mechanic suspects the computer in a D-jet injected car....just pulling it out and putting it back in fixes the problem.

The fuel injection problems in these cars are connectivity related.....rarely component related. Chances are your mechanic changed the ECU...and also fixed a handful of what he considered minor things....hoses, wires etc.....and it magically started.....and therefore in his mind he considered the new ECU/computer must have been the cause. It almost never is Wink
Ray
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lofoxx
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 411 Instrument Panel Reply with quote

Awesome. Great reply. I have been lurking on this board for a while with the occasional post.

I'll post a more in-depth reply later and send more pics too.

Thanks again,
Loren
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 411 Instrument Panel Reply with quote

Nice looking car by the way!
Ray
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